uhhh, what?

villain is *TiltBad*, a tag reg. Did not expect him to 3bet the turn, thought he'd call with a good chunk of his range and fold the rest. So now I should...

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($102.70)
SB ($100.50)
BB ($101.65)
Hero (UTG) ($101.55)
UTG+1 ($113.35)
MP1 ($98.50)
MP2 ($110)
MP3 ($101.80)
CO ($104.90)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, Q
Hero bets $3, 6 folds, SB calls $2.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($7) 8, 8, 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($7) Q (2 players)
SB bets $3.50, Hero raises $10, SB raises $28.50, Hero?

I mean he has 55/88/QQ or air
if you think he's going to lol 3b as a bluff, just call him down
I mean tag reg is not much of a read

Without any history, I'm folding this. You're utg and he knows it, your range is super strong and he may not give you credit for folding a slowplayed strong hand that woke up on the turn, so I doubt he's bluffing in this spot ever. If he ever has KQ preflop, that's the only hand he might spew with on the turn and 3b. I think it's a relatively easy fold.

Come to think about it, this line is pretty awesome as a bluff (doubt very much that he's doing it as a bluff though, just saying it might be something to try out), he didn't commit much and he's getting a pretty nice price. If you put anymore money, he's done with the hand. Might be a good line to take with something like a draw obv, but also with JJ-. IDK, I'd like to hear other people's thoughts cause I'm really curious about this.

this line is terrible as a bluff I'd go wtf?! and call him down

Originally Posted by iopq

this line is terrible as a bluff I'd go wtf?! and call him down

did you even read what i wrote?

actually, raising that turn with no clue what to do if raised is a real bad idea. also your the preflop opener and C/B the flop so what hands will he put you on. Overpairs cbet, air cbets. Your line gives you a range that can't handle a raise, and he knows it. Just call and call a decent river bet.

Originally Posted by KillsAids

Originally Posted by iopq

this line is terrible as a bluff I'd go wtf?! and call him down

did you even read what i wrote?

not big on the whole reading thing
I'm more a posting buff

iopq, why can't he have 8x?

Dumb turn to raise v someone good unless we have enough history that we can profitably raise/4b or raise/call/call (I'd probably raise here a lot v almost everyone @ 100nl). Anyway if he's good and not a total TAgg moron who just plays his ABC pre-flop range then he could have all sorts of clubclub hands/QQ+/55/88. He could also turn JJ- into a bluff but meh. He's rarely going to have worst Qs here and he never 3bs them imo.

Reasons to not raise the turn
1) We have the Ac(Dumb blocker for his lead range)
2) We obviously don't know what villains lead range is like or this hand wouldn't be as much as a headache(unless he was really good) but it's probably very strong or has a tonne of equity and could put us in really awkward spots.
3) Our hand is so face-up that if he's even a half thinking reg he can just 3b his entire lead range all day every day and twice on sunday.

Originally Posted by Parasurama

iopq, why can't he have 8x?

most people don't have 8x in their range when they call from the SB, but I could be wrong
but it's 4 combos: 78s and 89s and maybe A8s but that's even less likely
so just call turn call river

This thread sucks (not OP's fault). Turn raise isn't bad but it depends on what he does preflop with QQ+. If he's liable to call with them then I'd just call the turn, if he 3bets them usually/always then I'd raise the turn and call him down now.

this is weird cos it looks like he was looking to induce a raise from air or get thin value. This means he is either turning a hand like 66/77/99/TT into a bluff or has a monster. I doubt very much that he's doing the former without some major history so I think it's a fold. fwiw I also think our hand looks so much like AQ/air that he can even be doing this with KK+ as well for value, which makes this even more of a fold.

Originally Posted by mcatdog

This thread sucks (not OP's fault). Turn raise isn't bad but it depends on what he does preflop with QQ+. If he's liable to call with them then I'd just call the turn, if he 3bets them usually/always then I'd raise the turn and call him down now.

Yeah its equally plausible he has AA and KK here.

True story: tiltbad beat me 25-23 at ping pong after I was up like 20-12 and it cost me a poker stars cookie basket

and yeah don't raise the turn

turn = WA/WB, you can play it the way you want

As played, I'm not continuing with the hand pending some weird meta game you and him are toying with.

some conflicting opinions here, i'm inclined to think calling now and calling river is best, folding seems ok, and flatting rather than raising is ok too.

if we flat, he is def going to put us on a low pair and barrel his range on the river. So we raise when that happens, knowing what he thinks of our range?

Originally Posted by TwoSmeets

if we flat, he is def going to put us on a low pair and barrel his range on the river. So we raise when that happens, knowing what he thinks of our range?

I don't recommend flatting turn original bet then raising river because there isn't enough hand strength to do it. I would with something like KK+ assuming we checked flop and called turn.

Am I missing something? Doesn't he 3bet with QQ+ here if he's a tag reg? And I agree, 8x (even A8) is highly unlikely. So, isn't JJ-/JQ/QK/air-that-thinks-you're-on-AK a likely range? If so, don't you flat here and tense your abs for the barrelled river and call/raise like a man?

ur hand is pretty face up as a hand which cant take heat, he cant get spewy so im tempted to call turn and river

Turn raise is fine.

Do we need to look him up here? What's our dynamic?

i cant remember what we used to have going, if anything, but i haven't played with him much for the last month or so due to timezones.