Weak, or Sick Laydown?

Villain had been playing reasonably tight, basically breaking even through our session. He hadn't done much in a few orbits. I have a tight preflop raise range at 25NL, where I just started playing poker again with $500 after a 3 month hiatus.

I checked on the flop, because I was either crushed, or he had JJ, QQ. I wanted to make him define the action. Villain was continuing in his pots almost every time up to this point. I felt he would continue weak with pairs that are beat on the flop here.

I know it looks weak, but I just felt the big set here, and didn't want to ruin a great session at this table.

Full Tilt Poker Game #901579085: Table Bataan (6 max)
- $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:32:16 ET -
2006/08/15
Seat 1: God Damnit Why ($25)
Seat 2: brustabrusta ($24.50)
Seat 3: PuttN4Par ($52.65)
Seat 4: ryn7up ($37.85)
Seat 5: placeyerbets ($20.10)
Seat 6: Rondavu ($80.35)
PuttN4Par posts the small blind of $0.10
ryn7up posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Rondavu [Ad Ks]
placeyerbets folds
Rondavu raises to $0.85
God Damnit Why folds
brustabrusta raises to $1.75
PuttN4Par folds
ryn7up calls $1.50
Rondavu calls $0.90
*** FLOP *** [As 3d Kh]
ryn7up checks
Rondavu checks
brustabrusta checks
*** TURN *** [As 3d Kh] [2s]
ryn7up checks
Rondavu bets $2.50
brustabrusta raises to $7
ryn7up folds
Rondavu: LOL
Rondavu has 15 seconds left to act
Rondavu: Show?
Rondavu: Please
Rondavu folds
Uncalled bet of $4.50 returned to brustabrusta
brustabrusta mucks
brustabrusta wins the pot ($9.85)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $10.35 | Rake $0.50
Board: [As 3d Kh 2s]
Seat 1: God Damnit Why didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: brustabrusta (button) collected ($9.85),
mucked
Seat 3: PuttN4Par (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: ryn7up (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 5: placeyerbets didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Rondavu folded on the Turn

It could definately go either way here. I think in order to know what he had you should have lead the flop, though. As far as the correct play goes, I don't think your line is bad. Interesting hand.

I wanted to check raise the flop here, but he foiled my plan with a check behind, which looked REALLY suspicious for him.

i probably lay it down 2 ... i think your beat here...it looks awfully like he's playing AK,KK,AA with his check on the flop and huge reraise on the turn...

i didn't expect you to play it like this at all.

what stakes did you finish up at last time u played just out of interest, & why the hiatus?

with your stack size i like this because you dont clearly beat anything he probably has and competing for this pot which he wants to make big just isnt worth it.

If you only had 100bbs we might make a case for call and block bet but meh, i still think you can fold it then without too much bother.

Originally Posted by pantherhound

i didn't expect you to play it like this at all.

what stakes did you finish up at last time u played just out of interest, & why the hiatus?

I play by instinct, so a lot of different lines come out. I finished up at 50-100NL last time I was playing poker. I took a hiatus because of non poker related issues, and cashed out at that time.

It's embarrassing to play 25NL again for me, but that's what I'm rolled for.

Looks good...had a semi-similar hand the other day at $50 NL where nit raises 5x bb UTG and checks the K hi rainbow flop then donk bets the turn blank when I hit a set of 5s. I just call. Weakest play ever by me but river went check-check and he flips 3 kings and scoops a tiny pot.
This big raise check flop, check-raise turn is a good spot to ditch, as you say, by instinct.

good fold

Originally Posted by Rondavu

It's embarrassing to play 25NL again for me, but that's what I'm rolled for.

Embarrassed? Phhhht! Fuck that. Have fun crushing the stakes and moving back up.

"I checked on the flop, because I was either crushed...."

Help me understand this. What had he done to cause you to put him on AA,KK? 'Cause I don't see it...

And BTW, I too am presently at 25NL and if ever see you sit at my table, based upon what I think are very insightful posts here by you, I'm changing tables at light speed...

I think the best you could hope for is a tie or a poorly played AQ if he is a super donk... I don't see what else raises that turn that you beat.

Sick over weak for sure.

Originally Posted by relayer

"I checked on the flop, because I was either crushed...."

Help me understand this. What had he done to cause you to put him on AA,KK? 'Cause I don't see it...

He tightened his preflop reraise range to JJ-AA, by acting very tight passive for a long time.

Originally Posted by Givememyleg

I think the best you could hope for is a tie or a poorly played AQ if he is a super donk...

This was exactly my thought. There was a definate chance to stack AQ here. I had to make a tough decision about my relationship and perception of the villain. It's not like I've never seen a seemingly tight player go hog wild in a weird spot like this with a hand like AQ. He forced me to give him credit though, so that was that and I folded.

I don't see people as "25NL players", or "100NL Players". I think that's a bad way to rationalize decisions. I try to assess each player individually.

this is nearly exactly how i play it

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Originally Posted by pantherhound

i didn't expect you to play it like this at all.

what stakes did you finish up at last time u played just out of interest, & why the hiatus?

I play by instinct, so a lot of different lines come out. I finished up at 50-100NL last time I was playing poker. I took a hiatus because of non poker related issues, and cashed out at that time.

It's embarrassing to play 25NL again for me, but that's what I'm rolled for.

buy in $100 or bb $100. ? (yes i am dumb kthx)

Fold pre-flop. Nothing good post-flop will happen with AK against such a tight re-raise range.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Fold pre-flop. Nothing good post-flop will happen with AK against such a tight re-raise range.

to a minreraise this seems ludicrous

Originally Posted by Fnord

Fold pre-flop. Nothing good post-flop will happen with AK against such a tight re-raise range.

i wondered when someone would say this. i also love to say it, but i have a hard time doing it.

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by Fnord

Fold pre-flop. Nothing good post-flop will happen with AK against such a tight re-raise range.

to a minreraise this seems ludicrous

Nevermind then, misread the hand. I still think pre-flop is a crying call against a typical full-buy.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by Renton

Originally Posted by Fnord

Fold pre-flop. Nothing good post-flop will happen with AK against such a tight re-raise range.

to a minreraise this seems ludicrous

Nevermind then, misread the hand. I still think pre-flop is a crying call against a typical full-buy.

well you are basically looking to flop trips or a straight.

Originally Posted by relayer

"I checked on the flop, because I was either crushed...."

If you want him to define the action, surely you need to bet the flop? His check there makes it much more difficult for you to get an idea of what he's got. That check could mean nothing (or a scared TT-QQ), or a complete monster while he's waiting for you to catch up. At least if he called you'd know that he's got something, and if he raised (maybe donk min-raised), you could probably see what the turn brings, and possibly shut down. Although I still think it was a sick laydown, that preflop min re-raise says sooo much.

Originally Posted by Ash256

Originally Posted by relayer

"I checked on the flop, because I was either crushed...."

If you want him to define the action, surely you need to bet the flop? His check there makes it much more difficult for you to get an idea of what he's got. That check could mean nothing (or a scared TT-QQ), or a complete monster while he's waiting for you to catch up. At least if he called you'd know that he's got something, and if he raised (maybe donk min-raised), you could probably see what the turn brings, and possibly shut down. Although I still think it was a sick laydown, that preflop min re-raise says sooo much.

I agree with your logic. Like Fnord said however (and he was right on), preflop was a crying call by hero. I wanted to fold, but he gave me odds that prevented it. That being said, I was almost certain the flop trapped me, and didn't want to "Bet to see where I was at", and get attached.

I don't agree that I should have folded preflop as Fnord suggested. Even if you know he has AA or KK, you gotta call here IMO, if you know what to do after the flop.

The worst thing about this thread is that I find you're playing 25NL. I'm padlocking my PC until you're gone! :P

As for the fold. It's not something I think I could lay down but then again that's why I belong at 25 and you don't.

Good luck with the BR build. I hope the cash speeds your way.

I know on the site I play any kind of reraise preflop means you're up against AA-KK at 25NL. Definately a good fold.