what should I have done?

Hello this is my first post.. I've been reading these forums for some time now but never felt like i needed advice until today. I had been playing at this table for about 45 minutes keeping pretty tight tabs on everyone at the table and making some decent $$$ seat4 I have noted as a loose player and very aggressive preflop and seat 7 was a tight player maybe seeing a flop 10-15% of the time. So when this situation came up.. I was in pretty much a state of panic.

$25 PL Hold'em - Thursday, January 06, 07:12:31 EDT 2005
Table Baby's Day Out (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 6: HighxRoller ( $106.9 )
Seat 7: gomyr ( $93.63 )
Seat 8: kcoopatstate ( $24.9 )
Seat 1: mura1 ( $16.5 )
Seat 2: sdarar ( $28.35 )
Seat 4: nicknamegame ( $36.7 )
Seat 9: SPECTREBUM ( $23.9 )
Seat 5: ladypatricia ( $35.15 )
Seat 10: Orlando_13th ( $23.25 )
HighxRoller posts small blind [$0.25].
gomyr posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HighxRoller [ 8c 8h ]
kcoopatstate calls [$0.5].
SPECTREBUM folds.
Orlando_13th calls [$0.5].
mura1 folds.
sdarar folds.
nicknamegame raises [$2].
ladypatricia folds.
HighxRoller calls [$1.75].
gomyr calls [$1.5].
kcoopatstate folds.
BigBiskit has joined the table.
Orlando_13th folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4h, 8d, Kc ]
HighxRoller checks.
gomyr checks.
nicknamegame bets [$6].
HighxRoller raises [$24.65].
gomyr raises [$86.6] .....


I sat there for 15 seconds contemplating whether he had kings and then ultimately let time expire and folded .. this has haunted me all day whether i made the correct move.. any opinions?

Yeah, that is a tough one. What had this player been reraising big with previously? There's only one hand that beats you here, I'd have a tough time laying this down.

With no preflop reraise and a board that suggests AK is good, I'm calling here but it's close.

-'rilla

I would put him on 44, AK, K4, or K8. I may be a bad player, but there is no way I could lay this down. There is only one hand that beats you and since he limped in and didn't reraise I would put him on 44.

You can easily rule out K4 and K8 becuase he's so tight. 44 is a stretch.

That's why the decision is so close. It's basically between AA, KK and AK.

-'rilla

I'm calling here.. What are you expecting more with 88 dude? quads? Call and be very suprised if he has KK.

Gotta agree he didn't play it preflop like KK, Its one of those where I'll loose my money if he's got KK.

- sed

You're right that's a hell of a tight spot to be in.
Looking back at it, it's easy to see that he probably doesn't have KK due to the prefop play. However, the immediate thing you were facing was a massive all in re-raise from a tight player. It is hard in such an intense situation to be analytical enough in the heat of the moment. Sorry, I don't have anything else to say other than looking at it from a distance, I put him on AK. He's probably using his tight table image to push w/ TPTK.

Thinking about it more now, I would put the guy on KQ/J, he's tight but in the big blind so it would be a reasonable call into a 3-way pot. Seems he was trying to push you out of the pot since any ace would scare him.

- sed

thanks for all the comments , Did any one notice the checkraise after the flop? does it make any difference weather it was check raised or just bet straight out...

** Dealing Flop ** [ 4h, 8d, Kc ]
HighxRoller checks.
gomyr checks.
nicknamegame bets [$6].
HighxRoller raises [$24.65].
gomyr raises [$86.6]

To me checkraising is reserved for those times you want maximum effect and maximum rewards I used this tactic because I knew nicknamegame would come shoving to try and make a believable case, and like clockwork he came donating... but it seems gomyr was playing me at the same time, checkraising me, Him coming a mile over the top after a bet, HUGE raise situation screams to me " I FLOPPED NUTS!" anyways.. i still should have played it because I had the cards and the cash.. next time I wont analyze the situation so much and just play my hand and if I get beat i'll cry myself a little river and move on.

Yup I dislike these situations too where you ponder and run out of time. It's especially scary dropping a hundred bucks when the blinds are 50cents!

Could this guy be fairly deceptive, not re-raise preflop trying to create a scenario where the other two callers can't put him on KK or perhaps even AA.

If he has AA it's quite interesting, as he may think you're betting with something like AK and figures he has you easily beat.

going by my rules if I had AA I would deffinately re-raise preflop thinking it was a dream to have 2 callers and three way action when i have the best starting hand and am in position... with KK i would think twice about it (seeing its already been raised) see the flop and play it cautious, if an A drops on the flop check/call all the way to the river .. but if on the flop i hit my set then go all in (as is the case here) So working with my logic putting him on AA is not possible, but KK doesn't seem like a longshot.

I call, as quickly as I can. He probably had AK or 44. I don't see why 44 is a stretch, I think KK or AA would be unlikely because of the P/F smooth call. Very tight players might muck AQ in EP and AJ/KQ in LP, but most will call normal raises with low pockets looking for sets, not to mention play AA and KK aggressively PF.

Holy shit if this a party skin I dont care what his history was you do not lay that down. I have played 10000s hands on party skins and with a board like that u dont have to be scared. Im betting he has AK here. Well I'd never fold it and I'm a small stakes holdem master on party skins.

this is empire poker. i see my name on that table! seat 2. =D

I don't see why this guy couldn't have been trying to slow play pocket kowboys?

What isn't mentioned is what he thinks of your table image? If you have nicknamegame as LAggy could gomyr not think both of you are LAggy?

If so, he might think: "brilliant two LAggy bastards raising. I'll smooth call and if I catch my set, slow play until one of them tries to buy the pot and go over the top. Maybe they'll even call my all in and I'm quids in".

Just coz he's tight doesn't mean he won't alter his play for the right opponents.

He could have been slow playing KK, but I think it is more likely he has AK or 44, thus you make that call. When you flop a set in a raised on an uncoordinated board (i.e. no three to a straight or flush) in NLHE, you simply can't lay that hand down, unless you have some type of uncanny and wickedly solid read that you're up against the nuts, which I don't think he did in this situation.

Hell, he'd only been playing at the table for 45 mins, is that really long enough to get a good read on a player? The player he had pegged as a rock could have just been having a run of cold cards or playing in a tight gear. How do you know he never makes huge bluffs? Maybe he had absolutely nothing and (correctly) thought his raise of your reraise would fold out the aggressive player who's speeding around and probably has little to nothing, and you, who he might be putting on top pair or even a pot steal attempt.