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You make the call Hands 1 & 2

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  1. #1

    Default You make the call Hands 1 & 2

    We'll try a couple hands quiz style. Curious what different people do.

    Hand 1:

    New to the table, no notes on Player8.

    After you bluff the flop miss, Player8 calls at the absolute last second.

    What's your next move and why?

    ***** Hand History for Game XXXXXXXXXXX *****
    Gobsh1te has left the table.
    0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL)
    Table Fish nChip (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
    Total number of players : 9
    Seat 1: Player1 ( $66.34)
    Seat 2: Player2 ( $20)
    Seat 4: Player4 ( $44.16)
    Seat 5: Player5 ( $37.35)
    Seat 6: Player6 ( $76.75)
    Seat 7: Hero ( $22)
    Seat 8: Player8 ( $26.35)
    Seat 9: Player9 ( $26.70)
    Seat 10: Player10 ( $12)
    Player10 posts small blind (0.25)
    Player1 posts big blind (0.50)
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to Hero [ As, Qd ]
    Player4 calls (0.50)
    Player5 calls (0.50)
    Player6 folds.
    Hero raises (3) to 3
    Player8 calls (3)
    Player9 folds.
    Player10 folds.
    Player1 folds.
    Player4 folds.
    Player5 folds.
    ** Dealing Flop ** : [ 3d, 5d, 9d ]
    Hero bets (4)
    Player8 calls (4)
    ** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5s ]

    Hand 2:

    LAggCall - A little loose, very aggressive and calls a few too many bets.

    What's your next move and why?

    ***** Hand History for Game XXXXXXXX *****
    0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL)
    Table Fish nChip (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
    Total number of players : 10
    Seat 1: Hero ( $37.25)
    Seat 2: Player2 ( $12.37)
    Seat 3: Player3 ( $50.05)
    Seat 4: Player4 ( $23)
    Seat 5: Player5 ( $9.65)
    Seat 6: Player6 ( $25.35)
    Seat 7: Player7 ( $25.85)
    Seat 8: LAggCall ( $28)
    Seat 9: Novice ( $14.50)
    Seat 10: Player10 ( $22.50)
    Player5 posts small blind (0.25)
    Player6 posts big blind (0.50)
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to Hero [ 5h, 6h ]
    Player7 calls (0.50)
    LAggCall calls (0.50)
    Novice calls (0.50)
    Player10 folds.
    Hero calls (0.50)
    Player2 folds.
    Player3 folds.
    Player4 folds.
    Player5 calls (0.25)
    Player6 checks.
    ** Dealing Flop ** : [ 3s, Jh, 9h ]
    Player5 checks.
    Player6 checks.
    Player7 checks.
    LAggCall checks.
    Novice checks.
    Hero bets (2)
    Player5 folds.
    Player6 folds.
    Player7 folds.
    LAggCall calls (2)
    Novice calls (2)
    ** Dealing Turn ** : [ Qh ]
    LAggCall checks.
    Novice bets (6)
    Hero raises (12) to 12
    LAggCall calls (12)
    Novice folds.
    ** Dealing River ** : [ Qs ]
    LAggCall bets (5)
  2. #2
    Hand 1

    Tough call. You already have $7 committed to a $16 pot. The hesitation on his part would lead me to believe he doesn't have a monster hand, but then again we don't have much of anything either. Checking gives all the power to him, but a bet would be a stone cold bluff. As much as I hate to say it, I check it and hope he checks and that AQ holds, if not, I still have $15 left and can double up and get my stack back up.

    Hand 2:

    I take my chances on this hand and at least call him (pot odds) and would consider raising him to allin. I would tend to think he doesn't have the flush based on his style of play.
  3. #3
    HAND #1
    ------------
    I think I check here at the turn. My thought is that if he called my $4 bet on the flop he could easily be chasing and with a flush draw and a straight draw on the board that possibility is most likely to me. His call could mean he figures me for the same. I think I check here and try for the free card. Then if another diamond falls I would probably lead out with a 1/2 pot bet and take my chances with my Q-hi flush. If no diamond falls then I am faced with my only option being a stone cold bluff. I would check the river and fold to any bet from Player8.

    HAND #2
    -----------
    Based on your description of his style of play, I think I put him all-in here. I would take my chances that he doesn't have the flush here based on your notes on him.
    "The urge to gamble is so universal and it's practice is so pleasurable, that I assume it must be evil." - Heywood Broun
  4. #4
    Guest
    This is !luck
    Hand one: I think i would put him on a flush draw, with non top pair, bet a little more than half pot go from there. My guess is that he would fold.
    Hand 2: For some reason i would think that he would have the boat. QQ and nines. Also i would be scared playing such a low flush.
  5. #5
    Hand #1

    He called your PFR so i'm not thinking he's holding 95. Maybe Axs? A small pocket pair?

    I've read this a dozen times and can't figure it out
    I think I'd bet again because that 5 changed things a bit.. No longer is a flush the big boy, now you both have to worry about a boat.

    Fold to the re-raise maybe even bet the river again depending on the card.
    (this is what gets me in trouble when i'm leadiing out and someones calling me down)

    Hand #2,
    Either call it to end the hand, or Raise him all in. His small bet looks like a poor attempt to steal the pot, or a weak hand ie 2pair with a possible flush on the board. H's only got about $10 left so his $5 is about 30% of his stack now, Sounds like he's trying to steal/survive the hand.
  6. #6

    Default Re: You make the call Hands 1 & 2

    Overall, I was surprised at how you look at your stack in cash games. Maybe it's the SnG experience? I tend to look at my bankroll as a measure of where I stand and my stack just happens to be how much is at risk at the moment. Maybe that's why I do poorly in tournies, I get too paniced on such a short bankroll. Maybe it's why I've been breaking even lately in ring games, since I'm too willing to laydown a hand that looks like loser and missing value bets on the river. Anyway, if I like the table I got $20-$50 in front of me however I manage to get there. More than that I and leave. I've lost too much money and composure to tall stacks to put more than that at risk on a single hand.

    Hand 1:

    I probably misplayed this by betting only half the pot. I should have gone with $1-$2 more.

    Player8's hesitation had me puzzled. I figured he either had a marginal decision, putting him on medium/small pocket pair or a pair from the board. However, waiting for the very last second seems extreme to me. Almost as though he was acting. That would put him on a set or big pocket pair. Particulary given that he cold called my pre-flop raise. Either way I'm in trouble for showdown and if he's acting betting again would just put me further in the trap. I checked, he went all-in and I folded.

    I was just about to break out the Academy Award for Best Actor when he showed me AJo. I suppose it was supposed to put me on tilt. Big mistake. That one piece of information helped me put him on a playing style and take his money later.

    ***** Hand History for Game XXXXXXXXXXX *****
    Gobsh1te has left the table.
    0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL)
    Table Fish nChip (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
    Total number of players : 9
    Seat 1: Player1 ( $66.34)
    Seat 2: Player2 ( $20)
    Seat 4: Player4 ( $44.16)
    Seat 5: Player5 ( $37.35)
    Seat 6: Player6 ( $76.75)
    Seat 7: Hero ( $22)
    Seat 8: Player8 ( $26.35)
    Seat 9: Player9 ( $26.70)
    Seat 10: Player10 ( $12)
    Player10 posts small blind (0.25)
    Player1 posts big blind (0.50)
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to Hero [ As, Qd ]
    Player4 calls (0.50)
    Player5 calls (0.50)
    Player6 folds.
    Hero raises (3) to 3
    Player8 calls (3)
    Player9 folds.
    Player10 folds.
    Player1 folds.
    Player4 folds.
    Player5 folds.
    ** Dealing Flop ** : [ 3d, 5d, 9d ]
    Hero bets (4)
    Player8 calls (4)
    ** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5s ]
    Hero checks.
    Player8 bets (15)
    Hero folds.
    ** Summary **
    Main Pot: $30 | Rake: $0.75
    Board: [ 3d 5d 9d 5s ]
    Player8 balance $34.35, bet $22, collected $30, net +$8 [ Ac Jd ] [ a pair of fives -- Ac,Jd,9d,5d,5s ]

    Hand 2:

    I probably went too far calling him very aggressive. Anyway, the turn was really the interesting part of this hand. I raised to isolate Novice and put him to the test. If he had the better flush, well that's poker. But his stack was way too short to make me even consider folding and I needed to defend against the board making 4 to a flush by getting my money in now and giving LAggCall a reason to get lost.

    Then LAggCall cold called. Check + call. Check + call. Sure he's calling a little too much, but it really takes a "special" kind of player to cold call that bet + raise after checking without a solid hand. Then consider the change in behavior from an otherwise fairly aggressive player to just plain calling. I put him on a hand. He could have been trapping from the flop. He could have drawn to a better flush. Throw in a scary river card and this wasn't going down quite as planned.

    I interpreted the river bet as either fear of a possible boat or a value bet. I considered folding. I considered going all-in. I put myself at a little less than even money to win, made the call on pot odds and was pleasantly surprised to see.... 3 queens drawing dead to a straight!

    ***** Hand History for Game XXXXXXXX *****
    0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL)
    Table Fish nChip (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
    Total number of players : 10
    Seat 1: Hero ( $37.25)
    Seat 2: Player2 ( $12.37)
    Seat 3: Player3 ( $50.05)
    Seat 4: Player4 ( $23)
    Seat 5: Player5 ( $9.65)
    Seat 6: Player6 ( $25.35)
    Seat 7: Player7 ( $25.85)
    Seat 8: LAggCall ( $28)
    Seat 9: Novice ( $14.50)
    Seat 10: Player10 ( $22.50)
    Player5 posts small blind (0.25)
    Player6 posts big blind (0.50)
    ** Dealing down cards **
    Dealt to Hero [ 5h, 6h ]
    Player7 calls (0.50)
    LAggCall calls (0.50)
    Novice calls (0.50)
    Player10 folds.
    Hero calls (0.50)
    Player2 folds.
    Player3 folds.
    Player4 folds.
    Player5 calls (0.25)
    Player6 checks.
    ** Dealing Flop ** : [ 3s, Jh, 9h ]
    Player5 checks.
    Player6 checks.
    Player7 checks.
    LAggCall checks.
    Novice checks.
    Hero bets (2)
    Player5 folds.
    Player6 folds.
    Player7 folds.
    LAggCall calls (2)
    Novice calls (2)
    ** Dealing Turn ** : [ Qh ]
    LAggCall checks.
    Novice bets (6)
    Hero raises (12) to 12
    LAggCall calls (12)
    Novice folds.
    ** Dealing River ** : [ Qs ]
    LAggCall bets (5)
    Hero calls (5)
    ** Summary **
    Main Pot: $46.55 | Rake: $2.45
    Board: [ 3s Jh 9h Qh Qs ]
    Hero balance $64.30, bet $19.50, collected $46.55, net +$27.05 [ 5h 6h ] [ a flush, queen high -- Qh,Jh,9h,6h,5h ]
    LAggCall balance $8.50, lost $19.50 [ Qc Ts ] [ three of a kind, queens -- Qc,Qh,Qs,Jh,Ts ]
    Novice balance $6, lost $8.50 (folded)

    Now for the punchline... Player8 and LAggCall are the same player. After the first few hands I realized I had a loose, somewhat aggressive player with a healthy stack with immediate position on me and another one a couple seats down. Once I got a chance I switched seats and took advantage of my stronger position.

    Thanks for the feedback. It's interesting to see how others look at the same situation and make sure I'm not leaking too much value.
  7. #7
    Fnord,

    I'd like to think I speak for the rest of the forum when I say that these types of exercises are extremely helpful in thinking about our own game. I appreciate the posts you make (esp the critical ones), as I know it's made me a better player. While I didn't post a reply to these particular hands, I liked the commentary I saw from those that did reply. I hope you'll continue to post these types of decision-making hands in the future..
  8. #8
    I agree, with gripnrip (love golfing btw even though i'm no good at it.. hey just like poker )

    Anyways, these difficult hands are ones we run across in all the time. Its nice to see how others handle it.

    i'd like to see more if you get around to it.

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