______ (insert poker site name) is rigged and i have proof!

I'm kinda hoping this can be a sticky and/or an auto-generated reply to the "rigged" posts that always crop up

[Transcript from a meeting of core developers for ________, an online poker site]

Guy One: Okay, here's my idea: we'll generate cards randomly using the Mersenne Twistor -- so we'll have to write about two lines of code. Then we'll rake a little bit from every pot and make I dunno like $4,000 a minute.

Guy Two: I think I've got a better idea. We should screw up the cards so that all the good players get pwned by all the bad players. And we'll rake a little bit from every pot and make about $4,000 a mnute.

CEO: I'm intrigued... what are the pros and cons?

Guy Two: Well, the cons obviously are that it'll take us several weeks to write code that screws up the cards in just the right way. And we'll need to send a squad of investigators out every time someone signs up, so that we'll know if he or she is a good player.

Also there's about a 70% chance we'll be caught, arrested for fraud, and spend many years in jail being molested by dog-abusers, uncle-rapers, and maybe even Humphrind.

CEO: And the pros?

Guy Two: People will have something to bitch about on all the poker forums.

CEO: hm... no additional revenue, lots of extra work, and possibly running afoul of the law. That is a Great Idea! Let's do it.

Now I'd like to hear some of those proposals on how I can quickly and efficiently slice my fingers off...

[Transcript ends.]

Classic!

haha, nice Lefou, I'll give my support for a sticky.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ha.

*died*

-'rilla

Absolutely sticky-worthy!

However, speaking as a software developer, I am intrigued by the challenge of writing the code for guy 2's idea. I'll get started on that project right away.

K your wish has been granted at least temporarily. It may stay it may not I havent decided yet but it is funny as hell and everyone should read it at least once. If Xianti takes it off he takes it off . It does explain how retarded people are that post crap about it.

We sooooooo needed this sticky.


Thanks, LeFou.

This is very funny. It is bizarre how paranoid people can get after a few bad beats.

yeah, the rypparanoia people have sometimes is insane....

Thank the lord for this post! This'll shutup those 'oh my aces got cracked, the site is rigged' people.

Needed that!

http://www.billrini.com/archives/001169.html

Says it all...

Originally Posted by AvatarKava

http://www.billrini.com/archives/001169.html

Says it all...

Wow. This link is getting around. That's like the 5th time someone posted this link in the past couple of days:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=4746

lmao @ the post and the link!

You know, I was beginning to think I was the only one who _didn't_ believe party is rigged. Check out the comments in the homepokergames.com listing for party:

http://www.homepokergames.com/party.php


It really tells you something about the psycology of _many_ of the people who play online.

Originally Posted by AvatarKava

http://www.billrini.com/archives/001169.html

Says it all...

that is the FUNNIEST thing! lmao

Originally Posted by bcauldwell

Classic!

Well said...

I at one point did think it was rigged too, its just hard to believe at first. Like when you catch a bad beat, what do you do? Thousands of ideas flash through your head "was it a bad play on my end?" "that jerk should have folded when I threw down the 2x pot raise on the flop" "I cant fucking believe this" "god must not love me" "the wife is going to beat me silly when she finds out I spent the kids college fund.." ect ect..

When you are playing online the easiest conclusion to a bad beat is "ITS RIGGED!" Its just human nature, because after all its not real cards they are just algorythms(sp?). I know everyone on here has thought it at one point or another.

Once again I dont believe in this, as my game has improved I realize that I dont catch "bad beats" because Im not playing k8os after a 2xblind bet. And if I do play it I understand that if a king flops then its abad beat for the other guy if anything. However, I dont see why its such an impossible idea to you all. What law? Who is going to prosecute PP or pokerstars, or any other online card house? Definatley not any institution in America. What jurisdiction do we have over the caribean and europe? After all, you all do realize this is where these online card houses are based right? because as you know it is NOT legal to host such a site in the USA. The sites that are hosted here (I think empire poker is but Im not sure) are just shells, they are a middle man, they are not hosting anything, they just get comission from thier parent site.

I agree its silly to blame bad beats on rigged sites, and on top of that go back and deposit more money 5 minutes later, but still it is possible, and the fact that it is illegal in america has no barring on whether one of the sites would do it or not.

ONCE AGAIN I AGREE WITH YOU ALL, IM JUST SAYING THIS FOR THE SAKE OF SAYING IT!!

While it may not be "rigged", I don't agree with the shuffle/deal method. They determine the 5 board cards before any cards are dealt. That's just not cool.

But a board does not determine action.

If someone has Caro's Book of Tells off hand, could you copy the section where he talks about his important law that is often over looked.

He gives an example of a 7CS hand where everyone is dealt the EXACT same things and the EXACT same board occurs but at very different times and without them knowing that it was happening. The action was *completely* different in both occassions.

It's early in the book.

But the point is, generating the board prior to preflop action will not influence the size of the pot.

-'rilla

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

But a board does not determine action.

If someone has Caro's Book of Tells off hand, could you copy the section where he talks about his important law that is often over looked.

He gives an example of a 7CS hand where everyone is dealt the EXACT same things and the EXACT same board occurs but at very different times and without them knowing that it was happening. The action was *completely* different in both occassions.

It's early in the book.

But the point is, generating the board prior to preflop action will not influence the size of the pot.

-'rilla

but it nevertheless is not how real poker games work, if you believe in the "magic" of the cards.

Originally Posted by joepits

but it nevertheless is not how real poker games work, if you believe in the "magic" of the cards.

Which I'm pretty sure I don't.

-'rilla

Originally Posted by sigmajin

You know, I was beginning to think I was the only one who _didn't_ believe party is rigged. Check out the comments in the homepokergames.com listing for party:

http://www.homepokergames.com/party.php


It really tells you something about the psycology of _many_ of the people who play online.

This was fun to read. Am I reading this right? The guy has lost $46,000 on PP over the last 1,000 hours?

"Oct 18, 2004 - WillyQuick77 has played at 4 different sites and rated it a 5.
I am what you might call a "tight" to "extremely tight" (rock) semi-pro player. Very nice layout & functionality. HOWEVER, I am concerned about the unusually long "streaks" of bad luck. I am familiar with poker odds & the fact that everything will even out in the long run - ASSUMING that the correct poker probabilities are being utilized on the website. In the last 1,000 hours (+-) on this site, I have consistently found that the fequency of BAD BEATS is disturbing. We must keep in mind that there are inherently more bad players in online gaming because of the convenience & less threatening ability to play from your home; with more bad players - you get more bad beats. With all that said, I still have a bad taste in my mouth. Here's something tangible that should matter to the average poker player... I track my poker play...at "live" games I average $55 per hour over the last 2 years; at Party Poker that number is NEGATIVE $46 per hour!!!! Good Luck!"

Anyone spending their time rating poker rooms on a site full of morons like this does not have enough time to be losing 46k.

-'rilla

Originally Posted by joepits

While it may not be "rigged", I don't agree with the shuffle/deal method. They determine the 5 board cards before any cards are dealt. That's just not cool.

On any given hand in a live game, the position of every single card in the deck is fixed before any cards are dealt. I have no idea what you're trying to get at.

Originally Posted by TylerK

Originally Posted by joepits

While it may not be "rigged", I don't agree with the shuffle/deal method. They determine the 5 board cards before any cards are dealt. That's just not cool.

On any given hand in a live game, the position of every single card in the deck is fixed before any cards are dealt. I have no idea what you're trying to get at.

sigh. thats naive talk. as long as no one has seen the order of the 52 cards before they are dealt, ANY card can come up that hasn't already been dealt, regardless of the "order" of the cards (basically, there is no order)

forget it. its pointless to argue that which cannot be proven, but i have my own beliefs.

Originally Posted by joepits

Originally Posted by TylerK

Originally Posted by joepits

While it may not be "rigged", I don't agree with the shuffle/deal method. They determine the 5 board cards before any cards are dealt. That's just not cool.

On any given hand in a live game, the position of every single card in the deck is fixed before any cards are dealt. I have no idea what you're trying to get at.

sigh. thats naive talk. as long as no one has seen the order of the 52 cards before they are dealt, ANY card can come up that hasn't already been dealt, regardless of the "order" of the cards (basically, there is no order)

forget it. its pointless to argue that which cannot be proven, but i have my own beliefs.

You just restated *my* point. What on earth are you talking about?

Originally Posted by joepits

Originally Posted by TylerK

Originally Posted by joepits

While it may not be "rigged", I don't agree with the shuffle/deal method. They determine the 5 board cards before any cards are dealt. That's just not cool.

On any given hand in a live game, the position of every single card in the deck is fixed before any cards are dealt. I have no idea what you're trying to get at.

sigh. thats naive talk. as long as no one has seen the order of the 52 cards before they are dealt, ANY card can come up that hasn't already been dealt, regardless of the "order" of the cards (basically, there is no order)

forget it. its pointless to argue that which cannot be proven, but i have my own beliefs.

its proven that they have a certain number of different decks that are somehow selected before each hand. someone posted a link to a study on it where after some research they could almost predict the next card.

Originally Posted by TylerK

Originally Posted by joepits

Originally Posted by TylerK

Originally Posted by joepits

While it may not be "rigged", I don't agree with the shuffle/deal method. They determine the 5 board cards before any cards are dealt. That's just not cool.

On any given hand in a live game, the position of every single card in the deck is fixed before any cards are dealt. I have no idea what you're trying to get at.

sigh. thats naive talk. as long as no one has seen the order of the 52 cards before they are dealt, ANY card can come up that hasn't already been dealt, regardless of the "order" of the cards (basically, there is no order)

forget it. its pointless to argue that which cannot be proven, but i have my own beliefs.

You just restated *my* point. What on earth are you talking about?

you've obviously never used tarot cards...

Originally Posted by gabe

its proven that they have a certain number of different decks that are somehow selected before each hand. someone posted a link to a study on it where after some research they could almost predict the next card.

Pattern maps?

-'rilla

Originally Posted by gabe

Originally Posted by joepits

Originally Posted by TylerK

Originally Posted by joepits

While it may not be "rigged", I don't agree with the shuffle/deal method. They determine the 5 board cards before any cards are dealt. That's just not cool.

On any given hand in a live game, the position of every single card in the deck is fixed before any cards are dealt. I have no idea what you're trying to get at.

sigh. thats naive talk. as long as no one has seen the order of the 52 cards before they are dealt, ANY card can come up that hasn't already been dealt, regardless of the "order" of the cards (basically, there is no order)

forget it. its pointless to argue that which cannot be proven, but i have my own beliefs.

its proven that they have a certain number of different decks that are somehow selected before each hand. someone posted a link to a study on it where after some research they could almost predict the next card.

That was an older flaw in using a known random number generator. It has since been resolved.

Edit: Here is the link. Please note that the article is from 1999.
http://www.developer.com/tech/articl...3_616221_1?o=0

Originally Posted by joepits

Originally Posted by TylerK

Originally Posted by joepits

Originally Posted by TylerK

Originally Posted by joepits

While it may not be "rigged", I don't agree with the shuffle/deal method. They determine the 5 board cards before any cards are dealt. That's just not cool.

On any given hand in a live game, the position of every single card in the deck is fixed before any cards are dealt. I have no idea what you're trying to get at.

sigh. thats naive talk. as long as no one has seen the order of the 52 cards before they are dealt, ANY card can come up that hasn't already been dealt, regardless of the "order" of the cards (basically, there is no order)

forget it. its pointless to argue that which cannot be proven, but i have my own beliefs.

You just restated *my* point. What on earth are you talking about?

you've obviously never used tarot cards...

LOL...this has to be a gimmick account.

You know, I was beginning to think I was the only one who _didn't_ believe party is rigged. Check out the comments in the homepokergames.com listing for party:

http://www.homepokergames.com/party.php


It really tells you something about the psycology of _many_ of the people who play online.

I love this guy

When you see a player have 20,000,000 play chips at the table you know youve come upon a shady site. I wouldnt dare play for real money on this site.

I've gone on rediculous streaks on UB where I go to the play money to "get the tilt out". Ill just keep going all in and Ive amassed crazy amounts of play chips because....well....THEYRE PLAY CHIPS! and no one cares and will call anything usually.

Except the sit n gos, those can be ok practice but still

Hahahhaha, I was gonna post that Bill Rini link too. That thing is too hillarious.

Caught by who????? Arrested by who????? What laws are on the books in the USA to warrant any arrest or prosecution of any of these online gambling sites???? Get a clue people...

Many online poker sites are fixed in two ways. First, the cards are “Juiced”, that is, at a 8 - 10 person table, 70 - 90% of the players have a taste of the pot based on the 2 down cards they receive. The more people who bet, the more they loose. The more people who loose, the more they re-deposit. The more they re-deposit (and play) the more the online poker company rakes, and the more transaction fees it receives from both the player and the electronic funds companies that sponsor the site. Online Poker is addictive, and by “Juicing” the cards, most companies are preying on this, with 18 - 25 year olds being their prime target audience... By the time the “below average” poker player has gotten in major debt and closed his account, he has already re-deposited 3 or more times, many times more than the initial deposit - it’s a fact.
Secondly, after a cash out of money that you won beyond your initial deposit, nearly everyone experiences the “losing trend”, where you catch no cards, you get bad beats time after time, and the ONLY cards that can beat you are ALWAYS the cards that beat you. After extensive searching online, I cannot find any reasonable explanation to this from anyone, other than most online poker sites want you to bust for the above reasons.
I am a 14 year “Hold ‘Em” Player who is above-average in skill, but not a “Pro” by any means. I played online Hold Em for the first time 6 months ago on ‘Party Poker’, and had never seen such card distribution in my life. It was very clear from the first hand that something was a little odd about the cards that were dealt. I lost $ 4800 in 4 months on Party Poker, most of that in disbelief of the bad beats. I recently joined an online site that uses PricewaterhouseCoopers auditing of their cards, and have been a consistent winner every week since... Just a coincidence? I don’t think so....

Dumb ASS Fool, (not gonna waste any more finger strength typing about this idiot).


PS. I guess I would be pretty pissed too if I were a loser at Party. It's like fishing at the kiddy pond that has just been stacked with millions of trout, and yet you can never catch one.

Originally Posted by owhynot

Get a clue people...

Clearly we're not capable of getting a clue. Maybe you can help us.

loose

Oh, it's a 14 year old writing this post.

it’s a fact.

And there I was thinking that when someone states something as fact, they are forced to prove it. But thankfully, you've shown me the light.

I lost $ 4800 in 4 months on Party Poker, most of that in disbelief of the bad beats.

And we make it to the point. "I lost, and it's their fault!"

and have been a consistent winner every week since... Just a coincidence? I don’t think so....

I don't think so either. You should enjoy your upswing.

it’s all rigged.

Prove it or fuck off.

-'rilla

<<<< wondering what 14 year old has 4800 dollars to lose in online poker.

Originally Posted by sykotik489

<<<< wondering what 14 year old has 4800 dollars to lose in online poker.

Don't you mean "LOOSE $4800 in online poker?"

Originally Posted by eeeee

Originally Posted by sykotik489

<<<< wondering what 14 year old has 4800 dollars to lose in online poker.

Don't you mean "LOOSE $4800 in online poker?"

Well played.

-'rilla

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Originally Posted by owhynot

Get a clue people...

Clearly we're not capable of getting a clue. Maybe you can help us.

loose

Oh, it's a 14 year old writing this post.

it’s a fact.

And there I was thinking that when someone states something as fact, they are forced to prove it. But thankfully, you've shown me the light.

I lost $ 4800 in 4 months on Party Poker, most of that in disbelief of the bad beats.

And we make it to the point. "I lost, and it's their fault!"

and have been a consistent winner every week since... Just a coincidence? I don’t think so....

I don't think so either. You should enjoy your upswing.

it’s all rigged.

Prove it or fuck off.

-'rilla

LOL - THE FIX IS IN!!!!! DONT U LOVE IT?? Your either part of the "pack" or you're not.

1) A "14 year" hold-em player is not a "14 year old" hold-em player.
2) This is the internet. I dont have to prove anything.
3) Do UFO's exist???? Prove they dont.
4) I have no excuse for using "loose" as the past tense of "lose". It was incorrect to do so... boy, you really got me there.....
5) The simple fact still remains that Party Poker will never get "caught and arrested for fraud" for what they are doing. Not by any US authority anyway.

People please, We all know what they are doing, but no one can do anything about it. If you deny it you are either in on it, or to dumb to see it. Either way good luck on Party Poker-you'll need it.

Originally Posted by owhynot

Party Poker[/url] will never get "caught and arrested for fraud" for what they are doing. Not by any US authority anyway.

Now you've gone overboard; you're insulting my art.

As I'm sure you can all see, I spent many hours perfecting this little playscript, and I specifically remember editing the line

"caught and arrested for fraud by a US authority"

to read

"caught and arrested for fraud"

I think it was a nice laydown.

Originally Posted by owhynot

5) The simple fact still remains that Party Poker will never get "caught and arrested for fraud" for what they are doing. Not by any US authority anyway.

Yeah, Right.

How many here have 100,000+ Party Poker hands in poker tracker?

Ya'll getting an abnormal %'s of hands outside normal variance?

Getting more AK's than you should?

Didn’t think so.

Even if no government cares, the players care.

JoeBlow000 Posts: "Site XXX is rigged!!!"
JoeBlow666 Posts"Site XXX is rigged, here is my poker tracker database from the last 500,000 hands showing that I get and "A" or "K" 3 times more often than I should.

No one will care about the post from JoeBlow000, but on the other hand JoeBlow666 would kill that site with one post.

Too many people are tracking every single hand they play for a site to get away with it for long.

Originally Posted by owhynot

People please, We all know what they are doing, but no one can do anything about it. If you deny it you are either in on it, or to dumb to see it. Either way good luck on Party Poker -you'll need it.

Actually we are smart enough to understand what the word "Random" means.

Ya know, you guys are just ruining this topic for all us true conspiracy believers....
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
j/k
Very entertaining, though.

Originally Posted by Laeelin

Originally Posted by owhynot

5) The simple fact still remains that Party Poker will never get "caught and arrested for fraud" for what they are doing. Not by any US authority anyway.

Yeah, Right.

How many here have 100,000+ Party Poker hands in Poker Tracker?

Ya'll getting an abnormal %'s of hands outside normal variance?

Getting more AK's than you should?

Didn’t think so.

Even if no government cares, the players care.

JoeBlow000 Posts: "Site XXX is rigged!!!"
JoeBlow666 Posts"Site XXX is rigged, here is my Poker Tracker database from the last 500,000 hands showing that I get and "A" or "K" 3 times more often than I should.

No one will care about the post from JoeBlow000, but on the other hand JoeBlow666 would kill that site with one post.

Too many people are tracking every single hand they play for a site to get away with it for long.

Originally Posted by owhynot

People please, We all know what they are doing, but no one can do anything about it. If you deny it you are either in on it, or to dumb to see it. Either way good luck on Party Poker -you'll need it.

Actually we are smart enough to understand what the word "Random" means.

Well-made point, but my contention was never that my 2 down cards were out of variance, but that the cards flopped are juiced or fixed to give at least 7 or 8 players at the table a taste of the flop & turn to encourage more action. Although I am the only one on this particular post pointing these things out, there ARE hundreds of posts on dozens of other sites where pros and amatuers alike have caught on to the absurd card distributions they have seen and consistently lost money on at party poker.
Also, I always see comments posted, although I have no personal experience, that if you call party poker cust. support and complain about specific play or possible collusion, they will offer to deposit bonus $$ in your account so you dont leave. "Hush Money"??? lol
It's not entirely impossible that many of the players on party poker are employed by or hired by the company to keep the $$ in-house. Casinos have been doing it for 60+ years, it would be even easier for an online outfit to do it...

partygaming will soon go public. at that point it will become accountable to the shareholders and the truth will have to come out.

meanwhile my friends and i dealt a jack on nearly every flop last night at my home game for about 2 hours. and one guy hit almost every board all night long and won about 90% of the pots, ending up +100BB for the session in a tight limit game. pretty bizarre shit but it happens.

ChezJ

Originally Posted by ChezJ

partygaming will soon go public. at that point it will become accountable to the shareholders and the truth will have to come out.

meanwhile my friends and i dealt a jack on nearly every flop last night at my home game for about 2 hours. and one guy hit almost every board all night long and won about 90% of the pots, ending up +100BB for the session in a tight limit game. pretty bizarre shit but it happens.

ChezJ

No doubt at all about that - I play 700+ hands a week and see crazy stuff - I saw a Royal Flush 2 days ago on 5 card draw, but since I play so many hands I know I'll see that stuff.
But thats not what people are talking about w/ party poker.
What is going on at party is straight, flush, or high pair draws almost EVERY hand - its insane. So many straights and flushes on party. So many little wheels beat by big wheels, so many straights beat by flushes on river, flushes beat by boats on river, and small boats beat by big boats.
Doesnt matter what limit, or buy-in..
After only a few months I started taking pictures of my computer screen w/ a camera and studied the flop/turn/river cards.. - I know it sounds insane, but I was going nuts w/ that site. My 70%+ favorite hands were being beat 4 out of 5 times - it was crazy. The ONLY card that could beat me was ALWAYS the card that beat me - and I always had that same sick feeling in my stomach over it... It was obvious that the cards were really, really stacked to promote betting (and busting + re-depositing, of course)
And I've also heard (no personal knowledge) that the company that runs party had a very seedy and poor business reputation before this online gambling site.. anyone else hear this?? Thanks

Hahahahahhahaha, sounds like you don't know how to handle the PP fishies hey.......Did you get sad and purchase "Party Poker Cracked"? Did his ridiculous babbles make you feel better? Don't worry it's not your fault, can't possibly be, no, no way...Must be rigged.


I threw away about 6 bills last week at PP, and I know for a fact that I played well. Yeah, thousands of suck outs, and tons of random shit. It's called Poker, and when you play party you are asking for even more randomness as you have more randoms in the pot. Still I'm not whining, and I'll go back and bust some more minnows real soon even though I have not had luck there recently.

I especially like the multi tourny's. Blinds don't move too fast which gives you more time for opportunities to build a stack off the guppies for the later rounds.

I actually saw that a while ago, but didnt need to buy or read it - I just left party poker!! But I have to say the guy makes points that I dont disagree with, I just dont see the need to give him money to state what is obvious to me.
I could be wrong. I could be a complete idiot. I could even be mentally retarded. I just believe what I know, and my years of personal experiences w/ poker, and party poker, and another site I have been using since leaving party all point to the same thing.
As Rob Eagle says: "The cards follow undeniable patterns over and over again."

http://partypokercracked.com/

Originally Posted by owhynot

I could be wrong. I could be a complete idiot. I could even be mentally retarded. =/

Sounds like you got it.

Haha, Rob Eagle, hahahhahhahhhahah.

I think I have a free copy of that PP Cracked buried somewhere if anyone wants to laugh at it.

what about this review - have they corrected this problem?? anyone know??? is this site wrong or right??

http://www.ipoker.us/Rooms/PartyPoker/Default.aspx

this might be an older review - anyone know?? thanks

I'm not so sure it is a "Problem". They said the the PRNG was unpredictable, not rigged.

If it is unpredictable, then I figure we all have about the same chance of winning.

The real problem here is that you probably don't know how to make large enough bets to chase the draws away. This is the biggest problem at Party.
If you got a good hand, you need to raise preflop, flop, turn, river etc. to ensure that jackass with J9 suited in early position will fold.

When you mesh together thousands upon thousands of rookies playing at Party you inevitably will create an environment that will appear to favor losing players. I don't care how many times you have AA, if you fail to consistently play these monsters correctly, yes someone will draw out on your huge pocket pairs.

But please, be my guest and fold your AA preflop if anyone raises up to $5 as Rob Eagle suggested.