What important principle does this hand illustrate?

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06-07-2005, 01:34 PM
dalecooper

What important principle does this hand illustrate?

Better yet, what important principle DOESN'T this hand illustrate? It's got 'em all - calling with suited connectors/gappers in a short-handed game; raising into possible overcards on a raggy board; making potentially difficult calls on the river for big pots; and 46 suited beating the snot out of AA.

His only comment afterward: "Amazing." Yes sir, yes it is.

***** Hand History for Game 2169774316 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Tuesday, June 07, 13:27:33 EDT 2005
Table Table 36822 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: Chip_Remover ( $326.55 )
Seat 2: corey8618 ( $16.15 )
Seat 3: optraezru ( $72.6 )
Seat 5: miker0486 ( $155.5 )
Seat 4: stressball10 ( $98.5 )
Seat 6: seven21 ( $24 )
miker0486 posts small blind [$0.5].
seven21 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to stressball10 [ 4h 6h ]
Chip_Remover folds.
corey8618 calls [$1].
optraezru raises [$3].
stressball10 calls [$3].
miker0486 calls [$2.5].
seven21 did not respond in time.
seven21 folds.
corey8618 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2h, 4c, Ts ]
miker0486 checks.
optraezru bets [$3].
stressball10 raises [$6].
miker0486 folds.
optraezru calls [$3].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ]
optraezru checks.
stressball10 bets [$10].
optraezru raises [$25].
stressball10 raises [$30].
optraezru calls [$15].
** Dealing River ** [ Kd ]
optraezru is all-In [$23.6]
stressball10 calls [$23.6].
optraezru shows [ As, Ac ] a pair of aces.
stressball10 shows [ 4h, 6h ] two pairs, sixes and fours.
stressball10 wins $148.2 from the main pot with two pairs, sixes and fours.
06-07-2005, 01:44 PM
stuck

Why do you min-raise on the flop? It seems to me a chance for him to ram it down your throat a bit more (on the flop!) - enough so that implied odds can't possibly justify calling with just medium pair. I'm more inclined to smoothcall and hope for a nice turn card. Then again, I'm still trying to acclimate myself to NL Ring...

That play would have also given you a free river card if it hadn't hit on the turn... Did you have a read that said he would just call the flop and then check the turn to you? Otherwise I'm not sure if I like it..

Oh, and this is when you respond: "nh there sir" :twisted:
06-07-2005, 02:18 PM
dalecooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuck

Why do you min-raise on the flop? It seems to me a chance for him to ram it down your throat a bit more (on the flop!) - enough so that implied odds can't possibly justify calling with just medium pair.

Exactly. Here's my logic: I flopped a pair of 4s. It's crap. But if he's on high cards, he doesn't like this board and doesn't like any raise from me. I want to raise him - as cheaply as possible - and find out whether or not he's just got high cards. If he flat calls the min-raise he's usually (although not this time) got high cards, and I can wing it from the turn on. If the turn is another low card, I'm bullying him the rest of the way. If, however, he re-raises me substantially on the flop, I can maybe conclude that he has a big pair, and let the hand go.

This was an unusual scenario though because he actually had aces, not overcards, and played them strangely - a goofy little bet on the flop and no reraise when I raised him definitely qualities as "strange." I misread his hand because of that but I got lucky when the turn brought a gift. That little piece of slowplay cost him. He didn't recognize that I was showing all kinds of strength and continued to throw money at me. Which I gladly accepted. It's very possible though that if I hadn't hit one of my outs, I would have dumped a lot of money on him here, reading him for AK or some such. Not many people play big pairs the way he did in this hand.
06-07-2005, 02:58 PM
stuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalecooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuck

Why do you min-raise on the flop? It seems to me a chance for him to ram it down your throat a bit more (on the flop!) - enough so that implied odds can't possibly justify calling with just medium pair.

Exactly. Here's my logic: I flopped a pair of 4s. It's crap. But if he's on high cards, he doesn't like this board and doesn't like any raise from me. I want to raise him - as cheaply as possible - and find out whether or not he's just got high cards. If he flat calls the min-raise he's usually (although not this time) got high cards, and I can wing it from the turn on. If the turn is another low card, I'm bullying him the rest of the way. If, however, he re-raises me substantially on the flop, I can maybe conclude that he has a big pair, and let the hand go.

This was an unusual scenario though because he actually had aces, not overcards, and played them strangely - a goofy little bet on the flop and no reraise when I raised him definitely qualities as "strange." I misread his hand because of that but I got lucky when the turn brought a gift. That little piece of slowplay cost him. He didn't recognize that I was showing all kinds of strength and continued to throw money at me. Which I gladly accepted. It's very possible though that if I hadn't hit one of my outs, I would have dumped a lot of money on him here, reading him for AK or some such. Not many people play big pairs the way he did in this hand.

That's a very good point. My original analysis was based on the fact that you thought he had a high PP (which is actually a rather silly assumption). I really like your play, then, on the flop and the rest of the hand. I posted a hand this morning where I played back aggressively with just pocket 2s on a flop of rags vs. perceived over cards.
06-07-2005, 05:53 PM
ChezJ

that's one of the worst AA plays i've ever seen. good hand my friend.