How should I play aces in this kind of situation?

So I decided to play little two-tabling of NL50 (out of roll, had 12buy-ins). I noticed i played a bit more tighter than I play at NL25, by playing Axs only from late position, folded couple times to a 6xBB raise and stuff like that, I think i'm still a bit scared of this level. And maybe I should be, since i'm not BR'ed yet.

I was amazed when my Kings held up preflop AI while i thought the other guy was definately on Aces by re-raising my re-raise and then calling my AI. I didn't know they would do that at NL50, but I guess it isn't that big of a change in the play between NL25 and NL50?

So my question is, should i play the hand above differently? Should i just re-raise less, say $10-$20? I considered there was already a decent pot for me and I was scared they all would call my smaller raise and decided to push instead of raising smaller.

So, would you just re-raise this?
***** Hand History for Game 2200243732 *****
$50 NL Hold'em - Monday, June 13, 07:18:07 EDT 2005
Table Table 36586 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: mc545668 ( $55.43 )
Seat 3: wiwwe18 ( $46.5 )
Seat 4: CARIBOOACE ( $27.9 )
Seat 8: tinabeaner ( $152.97 )
Seat 10: grnydrowave2 ( $70.3 )
Seat 7: MrMagoo17 ( $33.8 )
Seat 9: yunyanyin ( $45.25 )
Seat 5: eugenedebbs ( $33.2 )
Seat 6: baker4231 ( $63.2 )
CARIBOOACE posts small blind [$0.25].
eugenedebbs posts big blind [$0.5].
mc545668 posts big blind + dead [$0.75].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to wiwwe18 [ :As: :Ad: ]
baker4231 raises [$2].
MrMagoo17 calls [$2].
tinabeaner folds.
yunyanyin folds.
grnydrowave2 calls [$2].
>You have options at Table 37448 Table!.
mc545668 calls [$1.5].
wiwwe18 is all-In [$46.5]
CARIBOOACE folds.
eugenedebbs is all-In [$32.7]
baker4231 folds.
MrMagoo17 folds.
tinabeaner: kk vs aa
grnydrowave2 folds.
mc545668 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ :Jc:, :7c:, :Th: ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ :5h: ]
** Dealing River ** [ :2h: ]
eugenedebbs shows [ :Kh:, :Kd: ] a pair of kings.
wiwwe18 shows [ :As:, :Ad: ] a pair of aces.
wiwwe18 wins $13.3 from side pot #1 with a pair of aces.
wiwwe18 wins $71.9 from the main pot with a pair of aces.
eugenedebbs has left the table.

I dont even play AXs period.

-'rilla

I wanted to give my perspective on AXs. I think Rilla is correct in recommending you drop it preflop. Personally, I almost never do. Seems weird hugh? That's me. I play different.

I play Axs every time I get it in a limping pot. It would seem like there aren't any implied odds, but there are actually pretty decent implied odds if you play it a certain way. By that I mean I don't give away my draw if I flop 4 to the flush. I often get called for big bets when I make my flush because I purposely make it look like I'm bluffing.

If I flop 4 to the flush I bet 3/4 pot mid to late position to look like I'm trying to scare away draws. If I get reraised I fold. If I get called I take it from there. Betting 3/4 pot on the flop has the effect of making TP cautious. They feel like they're behind, and won't strongarm you. Even top two pair won't ramp up until the turn usually, because they feel no one is drawing against them. You're drawing to a nut flush, and they don't know it holding top two pair. They will call a huge bet if you hit.

Anyway, if TP calls with position on me, I check the turn. You'd be amazed how many times they check right behind me. If they bet it's usually very cheap, because they are trying to size me up still. The beauty of that happening is they had no choice but to size me up on a late street, and now I get a cheap river. So I call, and when a flush hits on the river I bet HUGE. They almost always think I'm bluffing and pay me off.

I can certainly see why you wouldn't play it. Played passively postflop you're dead meat with Axs. I play it aggressively, and I am often rewarded.

I usually play flush draws similarly to you, but found myself either getting in deep (very deep) into a hand where I had to hit to win or a situation where there is no big payout or very few value bets when I do run my opponent down. I don't even waste my time with a hand becuase it's suited. I go for connected becuase straights are where it's at.

-'rilla

I'll play AXs from the button and the button-1 if there are folds to me.
I'll then try to buy the button with a 3xBB and attack the blinds from there.

I don't play for the flush value unless there are 3 plrs limping ahead of me. This means if there are 1 or 2 plrs limping, I fold AXs. Obviously, I fold AXs to any PFRs.

Flopping a full flush is something like a 25 to 1 long shot. Flopping a 4-flush is like 5 to 1. (I have to check my odds, I might be way off) and then you have a 3 to 1 draw. To get paid on flush value your need to
extract at least $20 from pot for each flush you see. Not easy against
one or two TAG plrs. Your odds of making the flush draw + A over are
a 12 outer which is like 45% from the flop.

Having said all that, I'll break my own rules and play them out of position
- usually its a leak.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I usually play flush draws similarly to you, but found myself either getting in deep (very deep) into a hand where I had to hit to win or a situation where there is no big payout or very few value bets when I do run my opponent down. I don't even waste my time with a hand becuase it's suited. I go for connected becuase straights are where it's at.

-'rilla

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That's interesting. I just started really tapping into implied odds on a deeper level. I was primarily a limit player a couple months back. Now I call big preflop raises with pocket pairs just because I know if I hit my set I'm gonna drain someone.

Now that you mention it straights do disguise much better than flushes. People are always cautious on a suited board, but will get porked by a weird straight.

So you've had a lot of success playing your connected hands? Do you play them for good raises? Maybe I should start appreciating the implied value of a mid straight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DimitriT

I'll play AXs from the button and the button-1 if there are folds to me.
I'll then try to buy the button with a 3xBB and attack the blinds from there.

I don't play for the flush value unless there are 3 plrs limping ahead of me. This means if there are 1 or 2 plrs limping, I fold AXs. Obviously, I fold AXs to any PFRs.

Flopping a full flush is something like a 15 to 1 long shot. Flopping a 4-flush is like 5 to 1. (I have to check my odds, I might be way off) and then you have a 3 to 1 draw. To get paid on flush value your need to
extract at least $20 from pot for each flush you see. Not easy against
one or two TAG plrs. Your odds of making the flush draw + A over are
a 12 outer which is like 45% from the flop.

Having said all that, I'll break my own rules and play them out of position
- usually its a leak.

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Ouch math. The truth is if you're a good enough postflop player you can make up a lot of that ground by strongarming weakness on any board that pops. So if you figure out of 24 flops holding Axs, you're going to get 1 nut flush. You can steal at least 4 of the remaining pots, and another 1 or 2 will have a flopped ace which you can also add.

My math is terrible, but 7 pots out of 24 ain't that bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I usually play flush draws similarly to you, but found myself either getting in deep (very deep) into a hand where I had to hit to win or a situation where there is no big payout or very few value bets when I do run my opponent down. I don't even waste my time with a hand becuase it's suited. I go for connected becuase straights are where it's at.

-'rilla

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i've been noticing this alot with my play... seems i win the majority of my money from making straights and sets.

i guess because its not as obvious as flushes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rondavu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I usually play flush draws similarly to you, but found myself either getting in deep (very deep) into a hand where I had to hit to win or a situation where there is no big payout or very few value bets when I do run my opponent down. I don't even waste my time with a hand becuase it's suited. I go for connected becuase straights are where it's at.

-'rilla

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That's interesting. I just started really tapping into implied odds on a deeper level. I was primarily a limit player a couple months back. Now I call big preflop raises with pocket pairs just because I know if I hit my set I'm gonna drain someone.

Now that you mention it straights do disguise much better than flushes. People are always cautious on a suited board, but will get porked by a weird straight.

So you've had a lot of success playing your connected hands? Do you play them for good raises? Maybe I should start appreciating the implied value of a mid straight.

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i dont know how rilla plays his straights but

i call 4x to 5x BB raises with position on the raiser at any spot on the table... my goal is i want to act last after the preflop raiser

hands i call with are 64, 74, 85, 86, 96... try to stay away from anything 4 and under, my favorite are 1 to 2 gappers suited or unsuited.

if i miss i toss it .. if i read a player on AQ or AK and i hit a pair on the flop, i'll continue to call down hoping to improve to two pair or better, hoping no high cards come.

if im drawing to an open ended i would call a pot sized bet on the flop to two times the size of the pot.. i think when i hit, i can probably get all his chips in the middle... when i hit, i just make an outrageous reraise to all in to look like a steal, and get called by AA KK QQ JJ AK just about everytime.

I oftentimes raise in late position with A-x suited to set up a bluff on the flop. Sometimes I'll flop what is probably the best hand, and other times I'll flop a draw to a winning hand which I can rely on if my bluff fails.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dsaxton

I oftentimes raise in late position with A-x suited to set up a bluff on the flop. Sometimes I'll flop what is probably the best hand, and other times I'll flop a draw to a winning hand which I can rely on if my bluff fails.

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I wouldn't be opposed to trying that here and there. Sounds interesting. I almost feel better limping it however, since no matter what pops up on the board, you can represent it against few opponents if they check to you.

When you raise preflop, you're allowing your opponents to put you on broadways that may be percieved as unimproved on a rag board. If you raise preflop, and a rag board 3c 7s 8h pops up, you might not be able to get your opponent to fold if they hold second or third pair. If you limped in they will not hang around if you bet pot from late position.

With a hand like A2 suited, I think you can get into a lot of trouble representing strength. You would certainly have to choose your battles wisely postflop.