A hand from Poker Room NL100

Seat 1: GTE ($113.75 in chips)
Seat 2: FatMoneyBags ($98.75 in chips)
Seat 3: Needa Tissue ($101.75 in chips)
Seat 4: leonhard14 ($94.50 in chips)
Seat 5: check_it_up ($71 in chips)
Seat 6: HERO [A:spade:,T:spade: ] ($109.25 in chips)
Seat 7: aussie7 ($30.25 in chips)
Seat 8: aipuu ($207.50 in chips)
Seat 9: Arek99 ($98 in chips)
Seat 10: juuicce917 ($29.75 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
GTE posts blind ($0.50), FatMoneyBags posts blind ($1).

PRE-FLOP
Needa Tissue calls $1, leonhard14 calls $1, check_it_up folds, HERO bets $4, aussie7 folds, aipuu folds, Arek99 folds, juuicce917 calls $4, GTE folds, FatMoneyBags folds, Needa Tissue calls $3, leonhard14 calls $3.

FLOP [board cards 7:diamond:,A:club:,T:heart: ]
Needa Tissue checks, leonhard14 bets $5, HERO bets $15, juuicce917 folds, Needa Tissue calls $15, leonhard14 bets $20, HERO bets $50, Needa Tissue bets $82.75 and is all-in, leonhard14 calls $65.50 and is all-in, HERO calls $32.75.

Table was about average aggressiveness, with quite a few callers (3xBB raise got around 2 or 3 callers usually).

Needa Tissue was a bit of a stupid chaser... he stayed in pots with horrible odds for draws, called two all-in preflop re-raises before him with a T7s in one hand (ended up tripling up on a straight). He was also saying how he was playing with free money... obviously he wanted to get rid of some.

leonhard seemed decent, didn't have too much of a read on him.

I put Needa on a weak to decent ace or a straight draw... I didn't quite know what to put leon on.

what are you thinking? 2 pair isnt a license to print money. if you won this hand without improving these guys are TERRIBLE. one of them has to have TT or 77, the other one either has the other set or 89

Needa's 15 flatcall and leo's aggression on top of that should have given you reason to get out of the hand unless you had some read.

-'rilla

I think this is a tough one, top two is a hard hand to laydown. I think its likely you're beat but only likely not 100%.

bair - If one of them did have the straight draw, getting my money in there is a good thing, IMO. Sets are the only things I'm worried about, as I'm ahead of every other hand.

I wasn't worried about needa, I had a read on him as an idiot.

But I think you're right 'rilla, I should have respected the fact that leon was going over top of me and the flat call. He flipped 77. Shoulda figured. Needa had AK, btw...

What would you have done when the flop hit?

no, you dont want to get your money in there if he has a straight draw, because theres still another person. and he had a set, like i said.

But you're assuming the set or something else that beats me is there, which you were right on. If there's a straight draw and a TPTK or lower two pair, how is it not +EV to get all my money in there?

it would be +EV because you would have the best hand, but its pretty obvious that you have nowhere near the best hand in this situation making putting your money in -EV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lowBoy

But you're assuming the set or something else that beats me is there, which you were right on. If there's a straight draw and a TPTK or lower two pair, how is it not +EV to get all my money in there?

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Against the range of hands making this play, it's going to be -EV. Both opponents are telling you they have the nuts.

-'rilla

The thing that makes this hand really difficult to get away from, IMO, is the flop action. Look at it again:

Needa Tissue checks, leonhard14 bets $5 - could be any hand

HERO bets $15 - of course, got to raise here with top two

Needa Tissue calls $15 - at this point I would assume he's on a straight draw or a weak ace, unless I had a specific read on him

leonhard14 bets $20 - this is a min-raise; Hero raised $10, Leonhard14 is re-raising $10

HERO bets $50 - this is literally the only place in the hand to make a tough decision. You were re-raised by the min. You have top two pair and no read on Leonhard except that he was the last flat-caller (out of three) on a pre-flop raise. He could have a lot of things: AK, AQ, AJ, AT, TT, 77, 89 maybe. Do you fold to a min-raise with top two? Do you re-raise for more info? Or do you flat call? I think folding right away is very tight. Maybe another min raise is called for? The aggressive re-raise here is understandable but really causes the problem.

Needa Tissue bets $82.75 and is all-in, leonhard14 calls $65.50 and is all-in, HERO calls $32.75. - got to call now, there's way too much money in the pot to fold. If there's even a 10% chance you're still ahead, and given that your four outs are probably live, there's no folding for $33.

This is a worse predicament than it looks. Yes, it's just two pair - but it's top two vs. a min-raise at the critical point in the hand. A lot of players would do the same thing here. I think you have to at least call that raise, and maybe re-raise back just to get more information.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Against the range of hands making this play, it's going to be -EV. Both opponents are telling you they have the nuts.

-'rilla

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But I think they only are telling you that after the pot has gotten so large that the hand is unfoldable. Especially Needatissue, who looked very much like he was calling down with a draw until he went all in right at the end. At that point it looks like trouble, but I don't think you can fold for $33 in a pot that's over $250.

The really hard part is folding, flat-calling, or re-raising a smaller amount, after Leonhard's min-raise. I think that's what saves you money on this hand. I say a fold is really weak here. Would you flat call and hope to see an ace or ten on the turn? (Or hope for a cheap showdown?) Would you min-raise for more info, and fold to another re-raise from Leonhard?

77

I agree with both of you, bair and rilla. Against two opps with that action, it's sketchy. But I removed needa from consideration based on my read on him (most likely he has crap that I can beat)... since leon was a decent player, I assumed he thought the same of needa and that IMO could let him make the min-raise with TPTK or even a draw. With his flop bet of $5 (1/4 pot bet), a draw makes sense.

The $50 bet was the only part I really thought hard about, and it was the only bad call because it did commit me to the hand.

So what's the general consensus? Fire a min raise back at him? Maybe a $15 raise?

minraising is an option, however i'd probably just fold when he reraised me the minimum, its pretty much screaming "build my pot"