2 $10 NL hands for feedback

Printable View

07-22-2005, 11:09 AM
CrunchyNuts

2 $10 NL hands for feedback

Game #1 - (blinds $0.05/$0.10) No Limit Texas Hold'em
Seat 8 is the button
Seat 1: kojak711 ($7.47 in chips)
Seat 2: JCee48 ($14.40 in chips)
Seat 3: Brian - R ($9.20 in chips)
Seat 4: El_Veroz ($5.75 in chips)
Seat 5: catapilar ($9.60 in chips)
Seat 6: u89109 ($3.90 in chips)
Seat 7: CrunchyNuts ($11.50 in chips)
Seat 8: nutzeedog ($9.40 in chips)
Seat 9: ulegundo ($9.40 in chips)
Seat 10: RET8rabbit ($5.85 in chips)

ulegundo: Post Small Blind ($0.05)
RET8rabbit: Post Big Blind ($0.10)
Dealt to CrunchyNuts :As: :9s:
kojak711: Fold
JCee48 : Fold
Brian - R: Call ($0.10)
El_Veroz: Fold
catapilar: Raise ($0.35)
u89109 : Fold
CrunchyNuts : Call ($0.35)
nutzeedog: Fold
ulegundo: Fold
RET8rabbit: Fold
Brian - R: Call ($0.25)
*** FLOP *** : :9h: :Ks: :Ad:
Brian - R: Check
catapilar: Bet ($0.30)
CrunchyNuts : Raise ($1)
Brian - R: Fold
catapilar: Raise ($1.40)
CrunchyNuts : Call ($0.70)
*** TURN *** : :9h: :Ks: :Ad: :8c:
catapilar: Check
CrunchyNuts : Bet ($3)
catapilar: Call ($3)
*** RIVER *** : :9h: :Ks: :Ad: :8c: :7d:
catapilar: Check
CrunchyNuts : Check
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $10.10 | Rake: $0.50

catapilar bet $5.05, collected $10.10, net +$5.05 (showed hand) :Kd: :Ac: (two pair, aces and kings)
CrunchyNuts lost $5.05 :9s: :As: (two pair, aces and nines)

Game #2 - (blinds $0.05/$0.10) No Limit Texas Hold'em
Seat 9 is the button
Seat 1: ping_ ($3.45 in chips)
Seat 2: jobyrum ($4.10 in chips)
Seat 3: Myrddin ($29.53 in chips)
Seat 4: CrunchyNuts ($21.45 in chips)
Seat 5: BLinDado ($2.40 in chips)
Seat 6: Old_Shaman ($18.95 in chips)
Seat 7: tncoachh ($5.05 in chips)
Seat 8: milmantom ($6.25 in chips)
Seat 9: KIRKRAAB ($0.65 in chips)
Seat 10: RiverMonkey ($10.05 in chips)

RiverMonkey: Post Small Blind ($0.05)
ping_ : Post Big Blind ($0.10)
Dealt to CrunchyNuts :As: :7s:
jobyrum : Call ($0.10)
Myrddin : Fold
CrunchyNuts : Call ($0.10)
BLinDado: Fold
Old_Shaman: Call ($0.10)
tncoachh: Fold
milmantom: Call ($0.10)
KIRKRAAB: Fold
RiverMonkey: Call ($0.05)
ping_ : Check
*** FLOP *** : :7c: :7h: :8c:
KIRKRAAB said, "this is a floding game"
RiverMonkey: Check
KIRKRAAB said, "folding*"
KIRKRAAB said, "am i the only gil herre?"
ping_ : Check
KIRKRAAB said, "girl**"
jobyrum : Check
CrunchyNuts : Bet ($0.25)
Old_Shaman: Fold
milmantom: Fold
RiverMonkey: Fold
ping_ : Call ($0.25)
jobyrum : Call ($0.25)
*** TURN *** : :7c: :7h: :8c: :3s:
ping_ : Check
jobyrum : Check
CrunchyNuts : Bet ($0.25)
ping_ : Call ($0.25)
jobyrum : Call ($0.25)
*** RIVER *** : :7c: :7h: :8c: :3s: :3c:
ping_ : Bet ($0.35)
jobyrum : Call ($0.35)
CrunchyNuts : Raise ($4)
ping_ : Fold
jobyrum : Call All-in ($3.15)
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $9 | Rake: $0.45
Board: [ 7c 7h 8c 3s 3c ]
ping_ lost $0.95 (folded)
jobyrum lost $4.10 (showed hand) :Ac: :9c: (a flush, ace high)
CrunchyNuts bet $4.60, collected $9.50, net +$4.90 (showed hand) :As: :7s: (a full house, sevens full of threes)

I probably should have folded hand 1 pre-flop, but I didn't so maahh.
07-22-2005, 12:11 PM
a500lbgorilla

Lose more money on the first one, please. Unless he's weak/tight or super conservative.

-'rilla
07-22-2005, 12:35 PM
CrunchyNuts

Suggesting I bet the river, push the flop or bigger bet on the turn?
07-22-2005, 01:36 PM
DimitriT

Fold both of these PF, especially when raised.

On the first one you have to assume he has AK with the $3 turn bet: PFR, raise on the flop, raise on the turn.. he's either got a set or 2 pr, and I don't think he has K9. The only hand you beat there is A8.

Second hand, you have both a flush and straight draw with four villains. Yet you only bet half the pot, giving odds to call for both. Given that you have that many hands, .80 or $1 is the way to go. The turn bet is even worse. Once again you are giving them odds. You lucked out that the board doubled twice with the flush and you got someone to call your all-in.
07-22-2005, 03:26 PM
CrunchyNuts

The first hand, certainly should have folded pre-flop, oh well. I should point out tho, Dimitri, that I put in the $3 turn bet, he checked to me and cold called it, which put in some doubt of his hand, but I figured he just enjoyed me betting for him so I checked the river behind him.

The bets to give the str8 and flush good odds was intentional. I hadn't seen many bluffs at this table, so I figured if the flush or str8 came up, they'd bet and I'd believe them, so I put in enough that they would call and give me money ('cause I'm still odds to win). +EV for them doesn't mean -EV for me. Agreed that I got very lucky with the river card, but even if he hadn't called that woulda been a fine pot to take anyways.
07-22-2005, 05:23 PM
Aces

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrunchyNuts

The first hand, certainly should have folded pre-flop, oh well. I should point out tho, Dimitri, that I put in the $3 turn bet, he checked to me and cold called it, which put in some doubt of his hand, but I figured he just enjoyed me betting for him so I checked the river behind him.

The bets to give the str8 and flush good odds was intentional. I hadn't seen many bluffs at this table, so I figured if the flush or str8 came up, they'd bet and I'd believe them, so I put in enough that they would call and give me money ('cause I'm still odds to win). +EV for them doesn't mean -EV for me. Agreed that I got very lucky with the river card, but even if he hadn't called that woulda been a fine pot to take anyways.

I wouldn't want to give favorable odds to hit draws. If you only get 1 call on the flop, you're giving 3to1, and with a .25 bet you're likely getting more then one call and each succesive caller gets better odds(2nd caller got 4to1). You then again bet the .25, giving 6to1 to the first caller. Any straight or flush draws would correctly call that bet. Other then trying to mix up your bets or try for a check raise or something, I don't understand giving draws the correct odd to continue.
07-22-2005, 08:21 PM
CrunchyNuts

I'm over 50% to win the hand, any money in the pot is money in my pocket, so I kept the bets easily callable in order to maximize the money getting put in the pot. Generally I'd punch pot-sized, but yes, this was a bit of a mix-up play, betting like I had the draw.
07-22-2005, 10:14 PM
bair

it doesnt matter if you're favored to win the hand, you're giving them correct odds to call unfavored to draw out on you
07-22-2005, 11:54 PM
CrunchyNuts

It only matters if I want them to fold, which I didn't.
07-23-2005, 12:15 AM
BobbySalami

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrunchyNuts

It only matters if I want them to fold, which I didn't.

People will call you given bad odds at these levels....trust me. They will not fold if they have a juicy draw. MAKE SURE YOU GIVE THEM BAD ODDS TO CALL BECAUSE THEY WILL CALL ANYWAY!

And if they dont call, you werent getting any money outta the hand anyway.............
07-23-2005, 12:38 AM
CrunchyNuts

Quote:

And if they dont call, you werent getting any money outta the hand anyway.............

Not sure how you come about that when here, I did give them proper odds and I got extra money out of the hand anyway.

From a math POV, if they're going to call anyways, it does not matter what odds they have, their odds are completely inconsequential to your EV.

Yes, this line isn't textbook agression, but it's still quite +EV and isn't half bad for mixing up the play.
07-23-2005, 03:08 PM
lowBoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrunchyNuts

I'm over 50% to win the hand, any money in the pot is money in my pocket, so I kept the bets easily callable in order to maximize the money getting put in the pot. Generally I'd punch pot-sized, but yes, this was a bit of a mix-up play, betting like I had the draw.

If it's a mix-up play, then fine.

But "any money in the pot is money in my pocket" is a scary attitude to have. It will get you married to hands when you should just let them go. Look at the possible river cards and the probable outcomes:

A non-pairing club (8 in the deck, assuming someone's on the flush draw): you've got trips, put your opponents on the flush and fold to their bets.

An ace (2): here you'd probably get some money from them, although it depends how much. If they really thought you were on the flush draw, then they could think their ace is good.

Anything else on a table that doesn't bluff often, you're probably not getting much, if any more money out of them. They could think you missed your draw as well and try to high card you...

Overall in this situation, I'm happy making larger bets and possibly taking down the pot so I don't have to make a sketchy decision on the river.