your play?

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08-16-2005, 08:21 AM
DimitriT

your play?

Looser table, but I just busted the maniac three hands previously with a flush. Image is tight and I'm fairly new to the table. Aaida was new and this was his first hand in a flop. Mrpemite was in a good number of hands but seemed to tighten up after the flop letting the other plrs lead the betting. I felt both mrp and pap were solid plrs. I though rucky was a weak loose plr.

Would you have raised that hand PF?

What's your next move?

PokerStars Game #2346940161: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2005/08/15 -
20:15:33 (ET)
Table 'Badenia' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: DimitriT ($101.80 in chips)
Seat 2: mrpemite ($74.15 in chips)
Seat 3: ruckycharms ($50 in chips)
Seat 4: davisjj627 ($55.35 in chips)
Seat 5: pap_romano ($113.50 in chips)
Seat 6: KillerDucky ($104.70 in chips)
Seat 7: Vaporized ($36.50 in chips)
Seat 8: Boulaya ($49.75 in chips)
Seat 9: Aaida ($48.95 in chips)
mrpemite: posts small blind $0.25
ruckycharms: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to DimitriT [8h 8c]
davisjj627: folds
pap_romano: calls $0.50
KillerDucky: folds
Vaporized: folds
Boulaya: folds
Aaida: calls $0.50
DimitriT: calls $0.50
mrpemite: calls $0.25
ruckycharms: checks
*** FLOP *** [Ts 8d 7d]
mrpemite: checks
ruckycharms: checks
pap_romano: checks
Aaida: bets $0.50
DimitriT: raises $1.50 to $2
mrpemite: raises $2 to $4
ruckycharms: folds
pap_romano: folds
Aaida: calls $3.50
DimitriT: calls $2
*** TURN *** [Ts 8d 7d] [Kd]
mrpemite: checks
Aaida: bets $1.50
DimitriT: ???
08-16-2005, 08:35 AM
journey075

push da flop.
08-16-2005, 09:02 AM
arkana

Call and try to make a full house, be willing to dump it if you miss.
08-16-2005, 09:09 AM
arkana

Quote:

Originally Posted by journey075

push da flop.

Pushing with a deep stack in a 5-way unraised pot with a possible straight is not something I would advise.
08-16-2005, 09:12 AM
journey075

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkana

Quote:

Originally Posted by journey075

push da flop.

Pushing with a deep stack in a 5-way unraised pot with a possible straight is not something I would advise.

50nl im wiling to bet i have the best hand and i got lots of outs if i dont. i push it and move on. if he flopped a straight, good for him. hes got my money.

edit: also its 3 way, so its +ev to get as much money in on the flop regardless of if youre behind or not.
08-16-2005, 09:31 AM
sinky

There is a good chance Aaida flopped a straight (J9) or had a strong draw (AdJd) and has made a flush on the turn. Would be a bit worried about what mrpermite will do behind you, but I would put him on something like AT or JJ, so the Kd on the turn should slow him down. 10 outs for the boat so call. (TT would be a real bitch !)
08-16-2005, 09:34 AM
arkana

Quote:

Originally Posted by journey075

50nl im wiling to bet i have the best hand and i got lots of outs if i dont. i push it and move on. if he flopped a straight, good for him. hes got my money.

edit: also its 3 way, so its +ev to get as much money in on the flop regardless of if youre behind or not.

Ok its three way the second time Hero gets to act but 5 people saw the flop so the probability that someone flopped a straight is higher.

One opponent has about $45 left and the other one about $70 (Hero has both covered). Pot is only about $12 at that point. Thats a pretty big push... For this to be +EV you would need calls from second best hands here quite often because you are a 3:1 dog the times you get called by a straight. I dont think your EV will be very high but your variance will definitely be!
08-16-2005, 09:44 AM
DimitriT

So.. would you have PF raised 88 on the button in this situation?
08-16-2005, 09:46 AM
journey075

youre only a 2:1 underdog to a straight and it appears that one of the 2 people is drawing to the flush so you gotta reraise to make easier turn decisions. i like a re-raise to $10 here and a willingness to go/call an all-in.

maybe i play sets too aggressively though...
08-16-2005, 09:47 AM
journey075

Quote:

Originally Posted by DimitriT

So.. would you have PF raised 88 on the button in this situation?

nope.
08-16-2005, 09:58 AM
arkana

Oops, 2:1 it is.

My point is that pushing is not the best way to maxmimise your profits and minimise your losses, the way this hand played out Hero was getting a cheap price to draw to the full house (unless mrpemite check raised the turn big) and Im sure he would have gotten paid off big time if the board paired on the river.
08-16-2005, 09:59 AM
DimitriT

Quote:

Originally Posted by journey075

Quote:

Originally Posted by DimitriT

So.. would you have PF raised 88 on the button in this situation?

nope.

anyone disagree? this is the one question I still have to myself after this hand.. otherwise I feel I played it correctly. Here's what happened on the river:

*** TURN *** [Ts 8d 7d] [Kd]
mrpemite: checks
Aaida: bets $1.50
DimitriT: calls $1.50
mrpemite: calls $1.50
*** RIVER *** [Ts 8d 7d Kd] [4h]
mrpemite: checks
Aaida: bets $2.50
DimitriT: ???

Now what should I do?
08-16-2005, 10:00 AM
journey075

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkana

Oops, 2:1 it is.

My point is that pushing is not the best way to maxmimise your profits and minimise your losses, the way this hand played out Hero was getting a cheap price to draw to the full house (unless mrpemite check raised the turn big) and Im sure he would have gotten paid off big time if the board paired on the river.

when i say push i dont mean straight up go all-in, but rather raise to the point where its obvious that there are going to be all ins by the turn/river. i never like overbetting.
08-16-2005, 10:02 AM
journey075

Quote:

Originally Posted by DimitriT

Quote:

Originally Posted by journey075

Quote:

Originally Posted by DimitriT

So.. would you have PF raised 88 on the button in this situation?

nope.

anyone disagree? this is the one question I still have to myself after this hand.. otherwise I feel I played it correctly. Here's what happened on the river:

*** TURN *** [Ts 8d 7d] [Kd]
mrpemite: checks
Aaida: bets $1.50
DimitriT: calls $1.50
mrpemite: calls $1.50
*** RIVER *** [Ts 8d 7d Kd] [4h]
mrpemite: checks
Aaida: bets $2.50
DimitriT: ???

Now what should I do?

gross, i believe its bc you played your set so passively you have these tough decisions. you gotta get more money in on the flop. also, raising a midpair with lots of callers in front just bc you have position is stupid.
08-16-2005, 10:13 AM
arkana

Quote:

Originally Posted by journey075

when i say push i dont mean straight up go all-in, but rather raise to the point where its obvious that there are going to be all ins by the turn/river. i never like overbetting.

Isnt that what pushing is?

Anyways that still means that you are getting most of your money in while being behind (most likely).
08-16-2005, 10:58 AM
DaHorror

Tough to say whether you are winning here or not. But it's not a lot of cash to find out at this point so it appears safe to call.

My guess is that Mr. Pemite is holding jacks or queens, thus his reraise on the flop, and checking when the king appears.

Aaida looks like he has either K9 (not diamonds), or he has a flush and is hoping for a reraise on the river so he can push.

So the bite is whether or not to reraise to see whether or not he pushes or calls, or just to call and see what he's got. Certainly folding is an option but the price seems right to see whether or not he chased his flush for a poor price on the flop - sucky thing will be if you call and Mr. Pemite pushes :(
08-16-2005, 11:20 AM
DimitriT

Here' s my analysis at the river: I didn't think anyone had the flush. The betting led me to believe they were worried about the flush. I figured I was up against at least one straight but the betting could have indicated 2pr and even TP. I had to call that last bet and hope mrpemite would call behind for a showdown. The 4h could have completed an idiot straight draw and J9 and 96 are also possible - plus the possibility of a slow-played flush: I would have folded to any significant raise there. Later on pemite chatted on how he could have extracted more. If Aaida had let me lead the betting I would have gotten both of us out even cheaper.

The key pieces of information: the limped pot, the reraise on the flop, the check and weak bet on the 3rd diamond, the check and weak bet on the 4h.

*** RIVER *** [Ts 8d 7d Kd] [4h]
mrpemite: checks
Aaida: bets $2.50
DimitriT: calls $2.50
mrpemite: calls $2.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Aaida: shows [7c 7h] (three of a kind, Sevens)
DimitriT: shows [8h 8c] (three of a kind, Eights)
mrpemite: shows [6h 9d] (a straight, Six to Ten)
mrpemite collected $25.25 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $26.50 | Rake $1.25
Board [Ts 8d 7d Kd 4h]
Seat 1: DimitriT (button) showed [8h 8c] and lost with three of a kind, Eights
Seat 2: mrpemite (small blind) showed [6h 9d] and won ($25.25) with a straight,
Six to Ten
Seat 3: ruckycharms (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: davisjj627 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: pap_romano folded on the Flop
Seat 6: KillerDucky folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Vaporized folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Boulaya folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Aaida showed [7c 7h] and lost with three of a kind, Sevens
08-16-2005, 12:19 PM
Kiriath

I woulda bet preflop, I like middle pps near the button. call turn and hope to fil.l
08-16-2005, 12:59 PM
Fnord

I raise pre-flop and wouldn't even consider calling on the flop.
08-16-2005, 01:59 PM
DimitriT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I raise pre-flop and wouldn't even consider calling on the flop.

So you'd let it go on the reraise? If I fill the boat I can destack two plrs. I play it slow, hide behind the flush board and hope for a boat. The last call was at 10-1 odds so that was a no-brainer. I'm still not 100% sure on the pre-flop raise, the problem is that you are opening up the betting for the guys who came in ahead of you, if one of them limped a big hand they can push you out and you just lost your chance at making the set. The problem is pap at UTG+1, he may be limping with AA or KK hoping to reraise the loose table.
08-16-2005, 02:10 PM
Fnord

I raise pretty good cards and bet the flop 90% of the time until it's time to shift gears. With a tight image and the idiots bust, sounds like a good time to show a little strength...

Also, with pocket pairs and deep money it's easier to de-stack people when you hit if you build a bit of a pot (or image) first. With deep money at the $50 & $100 level I've had trouble getting it all in after limping a pocket pair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DimitriT

So you'd let it go on the reraise?

Pre-flop, yup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DimitriT

If I fill the boat I can destack two plrs.

Funny, my thought process if that my set is almost always the best hand on the flop and I want my money in the pot. If they have the straight then I'll settle with my re-draw.
08-16-2005, 03:33 PM
DimitriT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by DimitriT

So you'd let it go on the reraise?

Pre-flop, yup.

OK, for a minute I thought you were talking about the post-flop reraise in the HH. Now I get you.

Yea, it was a tough decision not to PFR. The only tough decision for the whole hand. I'm certain I would have taken a huge pot had I PFR'ed 3x.