Second pair pockets on a semi-raggy board 50NL

***** Hand History for Game 2578973164 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, August 22, 16:12:02 EDT 2005
Table Table 36544 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: pokesquid ( $46.25 )
Seat 3: Vassese ( $85.05 )
Seat 4: mafman78 ( $106.12 )
Seat 7: playznutz ( $70.95 )
Seat 8: aagaarDK ( $77 )
Seat 9: Ahkamden ( $47.35 )
Seat 1: BalageW ( $53.95 )
Seat 5: dirtFreshly ( $49.25 )
Seat 10: Jacksuit ( $50 )
Seat 6: empKrug ( $50 )
playznutz posts small blind [$0.25].
aagaarDK posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to dirtFreshly [ 8c 8s ]
Ahkamden calls [$0.50].
Jacksuit folds.
BalageW folds.
pokesquid folds.
>You have options at Table 37285 Table!.
Vassese calls [$0.50].
mafman78 raises [$2].
dirtFreshly calls [$2].
empKrug folds.
playznutz calls [$1.75].
aagaarDK folds.
Ahkamden calls [$1.50].
Vassese calls [$1.50].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9h, 5h, 2s ]
playznutz checks.
Ahkamden checks.
Vassese checks.
mafman78 checks.
dirtFreshly checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Td ]
playznutz bets [$4].
Ahkamden folds.
Vassese folds.
mafman78 calls [$4].
dirtFreshly folds.

Getting into this hand, I was playing my 88 with intent to set like a good little FTR'r, but then the flop came down mostly rags. The original raiser and playznutz seemed very aggro, mafman was a bit loose, playznutz was reasonably tight. The other two players wern't into many pots (bad cards, rocks maybe).

I was thinking that I should take a stab on the flop, as there was a good chance that no one hit with their high cards. I know mafman and playznutz probably didn't have much except for a couple of overcards, but didn't have any idea what the others were holding.

I ended up checking/folding though, because I thought at *least* one person would have come along for the ride and I didn't really like the prospects of a flush hitting or an overcard falling.

Would you take a stab at the pot in this situation? I was probably perceived to be reasonably TAggy.

You have position. I would have went for it on the flop with a 1/2 pot sized bet. If you get a caller its probably over cards and you're ahead. If you see a check raise he probably made a set and you can lay it down. Any over pair (TT-AA) would have bet on the flop more than likely. A good percentage of the time you will get 3 folds here with that craptastic rag board.

On the contrary, you don't have position. That makes it real tough. The pot is large however. There is no correct answer. It's a high variance slightly +EV play to bet the pot amount on the flop, and check fold to any callers. The reason being because people play hands like A9, K9, Q9, J9. Not to mention 9T and 89 suited often enough. It's your choice. It's probably a good decision, though half the time it will turn out bad. The trouble is you could invest too much on 4th and 5th while you're behind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rondavu

On the contrary, you don't have position.

---

Umm, check again. I think he does have position(after the flop anyway).

With a 4x raise and a caller and two left to act, you could also lay this down PF. You could stab at the flop...I would only fear a slowplayed set here. Anybody w/overpair or TP should bet this flop. On the other hand in a five-way pot you might get somebody checkcalling TP or stupidly sloplaying overs when they should bet, so either play is fine.

I had position (CO and Button folded), which is why I first got it in my head to try taking the pot after everyone checked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aces

With a 4x raise and a caller and two left to act, you could also lay this down PF.

---

Actually, I was the first caller.

He meant the guy that tried to limp before the raise. I don't see any reason to lay this down pre flop, 11.5% to catch a set and the stacks are deep enough by a longshot to just play this hand for set value, if you think you can get the villains to put chips in (ie they aren't too tight).

I woulda stabbed at the flop, like i said in my earlier reply. You'll either take down a pot for a half pot sized bet, or find out exactly where you're at in the hand. It's the most EV move you will find imo.

Thanks PokerPat, I lean towards your line of thinking.

My only concern was that with so many people seeing the flop, someone might be sitting on Ahxh and would call a 1/2 pot bet, leaving me with a difficult decision on 4th. I think the two players I mentioned something about would have both bet out a flush draw, but I couldn't be sure of that and the other two might have done anything with a flush draw.

$5 bet on the flop

dump the hand at the first sign of strength

if you get a caller, try to figure out if he's on a draw.. does he check the turn and just call a $3 bet?

Check behind on the river or lay it down if he bets into you