A couple to look at

(apologies i cant use the covertor yet but i will try!)
I should probably be playing this limit exclusivly and 'dabbling' in 100nl by now with my 'role. Only reason i havent is that i have to stop playing in a few weeks and have just wanted to focus on my game and plugging leaks while knowing i can consistently beat the games im playing.
Just a few hands therefore from nl 50 for analysis.

This was about the 5th hand i played at the table. Opp is aggressive and will raise me back if he doesnt think i have the goods. But he has no read on me yet. All he has seen are two lp 4bb rasies that were uncontested. So right move here? If he rerasies i auto-fold.

Stage #178799221: Holdem No Limit $0.25 [ 2005-08-30 10:40:30 ]
Seat 4 - MIFFED22001 $29.35 in chips
Seat 5 - GTJEB $7.79 in chips
Seat 6 - PROSTRYKER55 $24.80 in chips
Seat 7 - SCOTT_NZL $30.72 in chips
Seat 1 - MARINES1 $23.60 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 4] ***
GTJEB - Post small blind $0.25
PROSTRYKER55 - Post big blind $0.50
MIFFED22001 - Pocket [Qc,Qs]
SCOTT_NZL - Calls $0.50 (KQ/KJ/AJ/PP something similar?)
MARINES1 - Folds
MIFFED22001 - Raises $0.50 to $2
GTJEB - Calls $1.75
PROSTRYKER55 - Folds
SCOTT_NZL - Calls $1.50
*** FLOP [2d,Kh,Ac] ***
GTJEB - Checks
SCOTT_NZL - Checks
MIFFED22001 - Bets $4
GTJEB - Folds
SCOTT_NZL - Folds
MIFFED22001 - returned ($4) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MIFFED22001 - Does not show
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($6.50) Rake ($0.30)
Board [2d,Kh,Ac]
MARINES1 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
MIFFED22001 - Total ($6.20) HI:($6.20) [Does not show]
GTJEB - Folded on the FLOP
PROSTRYKER55 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
SCOTT_NZL - Folded on the FLOP

This play just sucked full stop i think. Is it a bad preflop call? should i just have folded? I am on the button so i guess this is my justification. In the end when he showed the missed straight draw bluff to me i was actually surprised. I hadnt seen the possible straight draw i had only seen the flush (duh Miffed! :oops: ). This was also the first time i was heads up against this guy and i'd only seen him bet with the goods, therefore the river bet seemed like it could have been either a bluff or a value bet to make me show my top pair. I guess i had to give benefit of the doubt. Thinking about it now he would have bet larger if he had something. So where did i really go wrong here?

Stage #178801405: Holdem No Limit $0.25 [ 2005-08-30 10:48:49 ]
Seat 4 - MIFFED22001 $34.60 in chips
Seat 6 - PROSTRYKER55 $26.25 in chips
Seat 7 - SCOTT_NZL $28.62 in chips
Seat 9 - DREGAR $28.88 in chips
Seat 1 - MARINES1 $15.26 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 4] ***
PROSTRYKER55 - Post small blind $0.25
SCOTT_NZL - Post big blind $0.50
MIFFED22001 - Pocket [Qh,6h] sOOted!
DREGAR - Folds
MARINES1 - Calls $0.50
MIFFED22001 - Calls $0.50
PROSTRYKER55 - Folds
SCOTT_NZL - Checks
*** FLOP [7c,Qc,10s] ***
SCOTT_NZL - Checks
MARINES1 - Checks
MIFFED22001 - Bets $1
SCOTT_NZL - Folds
MARINES1 - Calls $1
*** TURN [7c,Qc,10s,3d] ***
MARINES1 - Checks
MIFFED22001 - Bets $1.50
MARINES1 - Calls $1.50
*** RIVER [7c,Qc,10s,3d,3c] ***
MARINES1 - Bets $2
MIFFED22001 - Folds
MARINES1 - returned ($2) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MARINES1 - Show cards [9d,8d]
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($6.75) Rake ($0.30)
Board [7c,Qc,10s,3d,3c]
MARINES1 - Total ($6.45) HI:($6.45)One pair, threes [9d,8d - B:3d,B:3c,B:Qc,B:10s,P:9d]
MIFFED22001 - Folded on the RIVER
PROSTRYKER55 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
SCOTT_NZL - Folded on the FLOP
DREGAR - Folded on the POCKET CARDS

Betting draws is something ive tried to add to my game recently and i seem to have good success with it against poorer opps. I guess i bought this here as i didnt think he had anything which was why he was calling and not reraising. Was the river bet suitable or do i need to bluff it bigger? I didnt think he would show his ace high here which is why i bluffed it behind. (if it doesnt say, he had AKs) I also dont make it a tactic to call raises with KQ very often.

Stage #178805086: Holdem No Limit $0.25 [ 2005-08-30 11:03:40 ]
Seat 9 - DREGAR $32.83 in chips
Seat 2 - BUTTCUPS $19.45 in chips
Seat 4 - MIFFED22001 $25.60 in chips
Seat 5 - JHUB30 $19.25 in chips
Seat 6 - PROSTRYKER55 $23.50 in chips
Seat 7 - SCOTT_NZL $25.24 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 9] ***
BUTTCUPS - Post small blind $0.25
MIFFED22001 - Post big blind $0.50
MIFFED22001 - Pocket [Qc,Kd]
JHUB30 - Folds
PROSTRYKER55 - Folds
SCOTT_NZL - Folds
DREGAR - Raises $0.50 to $2
BUTTCUPS - Calls $1.75
MIFFED22001 - Calls $1.50
*** FLOP [3s,Jh,10c] ***
BUTTCUPS - Folds (Timeout)
MIFFED22001 - Bets $1.50
DREGAR - Calls $1.50
*** TURN [3s,Jh,10c,Js] ***
MIFFED22001 - Bets $2
DREGAR - Calls $2
*** RIVER [3s,Jh,10c,Js,Jc] ***
MIFFED22001 - Bets $2
DREGAR - Folds
MIFFED22001 - returned ($2) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MIFFED22001 - Show cards [Qc,Kd]
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($13) Rake ($0.65)
Board [3s,Jh,10c,Js,Jc]
BUTTCUPS - Folded on the FLOP
MIFFED22001 - Total ($12.35) HI:($12.35)Three of a kind, jacks [Qc,Kd - B:Js,B:Jh,B:Jc,P:Kd,P:Qc]
JHUB30 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
PROSTRYKER55 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
SCOTT_NZL - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
DREGAR - Folded on the RIVER

Opp is loose as fuck. He's turned laggy i think trying to upset me after i called his big bluff with bottom pair. Guy next to me called his mini raise straight away for pocket aces. I think i probably liked my hand too much but when the flop came down i thought i might push him off (he'd called other peoples pushes ( pps or pairs on low boards) with overcards (when it was obvious it missed him) so i knew he had the capacity to gambOOl which is why i didnt push the flop even with the ace of hearts in hand. Bad play or do i pay him here?

Stage #178814768: Holdem No Limit $0.25 [ 2005-08-30 11:43:20 ]
Seat 5 - JHUB30 $34.05 in chips
Seat 6 - PROSTRYKER55 $20.07 in chips
Seat 9 - MOSUAVEA $50.93 in chips
Seat 1 - THEGREYGOOSE $21.95 in chips
Seat 3 - BUTTCUPS $40.25 in chips
Seat 4 - MIFFED22001 $50.95 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 5] ***
PROSTRYKER55 - Post small blind $0.25
MOSUAVEA - Post big blind $0.50
MIFFED22001 - Pocket [Ah,Js]
THEGREYGOOSE - Folds
BUTTCUPS - Raises $0.50 to $1
MIFFED22001 - Calls $1
JHUB30 - Folds (this guy called him for aces)
PROSTRYKER55 - Folds
MOSUAVEA - Calls $0.50
*** FLOP [3h,8h,Jh] ***
MOSUAVEA - Checks
BUTTCUPS - Checks
MIFFED22001 - Bets $2
MOSUAVEA - Folds
BUTTCUPS - Calls $2
*** TURN [3h,8h,Jh,Ac] ***
BUTTCUPS - Checks
MIFFED22001 - Bets $3
BUTTCUPS - Calls $3
*** RIVER [3h,8h,Jh,Ac,4s] ***
BUTTCUPS - Checks
MIFFED22001 - Checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BUTTCUPS - Show cards [As,Ad]
MIFFED22001 - Lost mucks
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($13.25) Rake ($0.65)
Board [3h,8h,Jh,Ac,4s]
THEGREYGOOSE - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
BUTTCUPS - Total ($12.60) HI:($12.60)Three of a kind, aces [As,Ad - P:As,P:Ad,B:Ac,B:Jh,B:8h]
MIFFED22001 - HI: [Lost mucks]
JHUB30 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
PROSTRYKER55 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
MOSUAVEA - Folded on the FLOP

Edit 1
Although this hand involved some GambOOl (actually a lot of gambOOl) i was sure he didnt have the queen and that i was ahead. This is the first time after a raise ive come out and bet the pot at this table (the flop is live i suppose (but i guess this could have looked suspicious)) I thought he'd calle me down and with the possibility of him on a draw i pushed the turn knowing he'd almost inevitably call no matter what he had. I think this was a good read and i'd finally pushed him to where he'd had enough of me.

Stage #178819117: Holdem No Limit $0.25 [ 2005-08-30 11:58:57 ]
Seat 4 - MIFFED22001 $46.40 in chips
Seat 6 - PROSTRYKER55 $48.79 in chips
Seat 9 - MOSUAVEA $49.23 in chips
Seat 1 - THEGREYGOOSE $17.70 in chips
Seat 3 - BUTTCUPS $16.28 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 4] ***
PROSTRYKER55 - Post small blind $0.25
MOSUAVEA - Post big blind $0.50
MIFFED22001 - Pocket [10d,10s]
THEGREYGOOSE - Folds
BUTTCUPS - Calls $0.50
MIFFED22001 - Raises $0.50 to $2
PROSTRYKER55 - Folds
MOSUAVEA - Folds
BUTTCUPS - Calls $1.50
*** FLOP [Qc,8s,5c] ***
BUTTCUPS - Checks
MIFFED22001 - Bets $4.50
BUTTCUPS - Calls $4.50
*** TURN [Qc,8s,5c,6h] ***
BUTTCUPS - Checks
MIFFED22001 - All-In $39.90
BUTTCUPS - All-In $9.78
MIFFED22001 - returned ($30.12) : not called
MIFFED22001 - returned ($0) : not called
*** RIVER [Qc,8s,5c,6h,4h] ***
BUTTCUPS - Show cards [8d,10h]
MIFFED22001 - Show cards [10d,10s]
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($33.31) Rake ($1.65)
Board [Qc,8s,5c,6h,4h]
BUTTCUPS - HI:One pair, eights [8d,10h - B:8s,P:8d,B:Qc,P:10h,B:6h]
MIFFED22001 - Total ($31.66) All-In HI:($31.66)One pair, tens [10d,10s - P:10s,P:10d,B:Qc,B:8s,B:6h]
PROSTRYKER55 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
MOSUAVEA - Folded on the POCKET CARDS

Edit2
This is just poor odds on the turn here. Only question is that as it is raised is there any chance of calling here on the suggestion that if i hit i might get paid off big? I think it was probably a striaght forward fold.

Stage #178802589: Holdem No Limit $0.25 [ 2005-08-30 10:53:26 ]
Seat 1 - MARINES1 $18.59 in chips
Seat 4 - MIFFED22001 $30.60 in chips
Seat 6 - PROSTRYKER55 $26 in chips
Seat 7 - SCOTT_NZL $28.24 in chips
Seat 9 - DREGAR $22.83 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 1] ***
MIFFED22001 - Post small blind $0.25
PROSTRYKER55 - Post big blind $0.50
MIFFED22001 - Pocket [5s,Ah]
SCOTT_NZL - Calls $0.50
DREGAR - Calls $0.50
MARINES1 - Folds
MIFFED22001 - Calls $0.25
PROSTRYKER55 - Checks
*** FLOP [2h,9d,Jh] ***
MIFFED22001 - Checks
PROSTRYKER55 - Checks
SCOTT_NZL - Checks
DREGAR - Checks
*** TURN [2h,9d,Jh,4s] ***
MIFFED22001 - Checks
PROSTRYKER55 - Checks
SCOTT_NZL - Bets $0.50
DREGAR - Raises $0.50 to $1
MIFFED22001 - Folds
PROSTRYKER55 - Folds
SCOTT_NZL - Calls $0.50
*** RIVER [2h,9d,Jh,4s,3d] ***
SCOTT_NZL - Checks
DREGAR - Checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SCOTT_NZL - Show cards [9h,8s]
DREGAR - Lost mucks
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($4) Rake ($0.20)
Board [2h,9d,Jh,4s,3d]
MARINES1 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
MIFFED22001 - Folded on the TURN
PROSTRYKER55 - Folded on the TURN
SCOTT_NZL - Total ($3.80) HI:($3.80)One pair, nines [9h,8s - P:9h,B:9d,B:Jh,P:8s,B:4s]
DREGAR - HI: [Lost mucks]

Hand 1: Standard representation with position. Nice job.

Hand 2: You should be ashamed. Played horribly. The pot was $3.50 on the turn and you bet $1.50 into it holding top pair with declared weakness in hand with you. Not only did MARINES1 check the flop, but also the turn. You should have bet $4-$5 here no doubt. At the end it was a $6 pot, and your opponent asked for $2 on the river. Call all day with top pair even though you screwed the pooch on the turn by allowing him to draw cheap.

Hand 3: By betting the draw you accidentally represented 2nd pair. When the third jack came you were rewarded with a house rep. If you bet your draw like this when I have position on you, and I was the preflop aggressor, then I will personally guarantee you will never see a turn card. What a nice guy he was to join the weak party.

Hand 4: He made a mistake checking that river. Value bet city bro.

Hand 5: Ya he assumed you didn't have a pair, and then pushed on the eights trying to protect them.

Hand 6: I almost never chase a wheel. Your odds weren't as bad as you think however. The pot was $3, and the bet to you was $1. Definately bad pot odds, but if you're feeling frisky, then the wheel straight (when you hold 2 of the cards) can have decent implied odds to pay off depending on your opponents strength and/or aggression factor. You made a good laydown here in my mind mainly because your opponents were too weak to pay off a made hand enough to make up for lost pot odds. Not because you had bad pot odds to begin with.

Hi Miffed,

here's what I think....

Hand 1: would play the same, otherwise you have no idea where you stand.

Hand 2: besides the questionable preflop call the only question is of you should call on the river. There's one point for calling I think... If he really had the flush, I guess he would have bet more. They usually bet close to pot sized if they have it and to bluff they overbet, often ridiciously.... that rather small bet is a unusual bluff at that level I think. I'd maybe call that... but easy to say after you see the result.

Hand 3: That river bet looks a bit weak, I'd go for half pot maybe. You are representing an almost unbeatable hand at that point. I'd rule out quads if I were the opponent, but even a guy representing a 10 or a PP should bet more I think... after I'd called two times I'd pretty much signaled I don't have QQ-AA. So that rather weak bet (2 into an 13 pot) some guys might call even with Ace high, some perhaps just out of curiousity.

Hand 4: I actually liked the play here. I looks really strange if you push the flop after it gets checked to you... if he'd raised you after you bet, I'd definetely push (not sure if that's really good, just my way to play that). After that not much you can do I guess... actually a good outcome that you didn't lose more on that hand. I would have most likely bet the river, supecting the other guy of having missed a flush draw.

Hand 5: I'd play it the same (maybe a bad sign...;-))

Hand 6: Just a fold I think. I don't think you can extract much if you hit. The only situation I actually consider calling with gutshots is like that: holding KQ to a 8,9,10 board to beat a possible smaller straight if the J falls. That can really pay off big.

(EDIT): I just saw Rondavu's reply... nice job! At least I got some bits right ;-)

Quote:

---

Hand 2: You should be ashamed. Played horribly. The pot was $3.50 on the turn and you bet $1.50 into it holding top pair with declared weakness in hand with you. Not only did MARINES1 check the flop, but also the turn. You should have bet $4-$5 here no doubt. At the end it was a $6 pot, and your opponent asked for $2 on the river. Call all day with top pair even though you screwed the pooch on the turn by allowing him to draw cheap.

---

This makes perfect sense. Thank you. I felt the whole play from seeing the cards was bad bad bad. If only some others were this clear about plays like this.

Quote:

---

If you bet your draw like this when I have position on you, and I was the preflop aggressor, then I will personally guarantee you will never see a turn card. What a nice guy he was to join the weak party.

---

I am open to suggestions here on how i could play this differently should i find myself in this position again. any pointers? (or is it simply that i do not call the preflop OOP?) I agree totally that if the positions were switched i wouldnt be letting a turn card appear here.

Quote:

---

if he'd raised you after you bet, I'd definetely push (not sure if that's really good, just my way to play that).

---

My answer to this is simply that he WOULD have called. He played laggy after i called his bluff and wasnt too happy that i did (this hand isnt shown). I gave him a little verbal and sat back and watched him gambOOl several times where he should have made the laydown (of 3 times he sucked out on freakishly small odds twice) Therefore while your suggestion is valid and probably one that against another opp i would consider, here i think i made the best play to lose as little as possible. Even if i had pushed at any point he still GambOOls on being in front or hitting miricle cards imo.

nice analysis, rondavu. you are truly an asset to this community. i can't add anything so i won't try.

hey miffed,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by miffed

I should probably be playing this limit exclusivly and 'dabbling' in 100nl by now with my 'role. Only reason i havent is that i have to stop playing in a few weeks and have just wanted to focus on my game and plugging leaks while knowing i can consistently beat the games im playing.

---

are you getting married or something? in any event, i'm sorry for your loss.

Unfortunatly, just as i think my game is coming together in a good way, especially at the cash table (mtt play has degraded in part due to lack of time to play because of summer work) i find myself returning to university and unable to play online poker (i may be able to play small sngs but this seems rather pointless and not worth the effort)
Its a pain but i cant fix it.
Have to wait until christmas to play again but in reality its may time before i hit poker 24/7 again.

oh i see, i thought maybe they'd caught you on an 'intervention' or something horrible like that and were sending you off to treatment. so you're cutting back, that's no big deal, i didn't realize you were living and breathing it at the moment. i still don't see how being a student results in less time for poker, but you don't need to explain yourself here by any means. hopefully you can still check into the forum every once in awhile.

yeah no problem with posting and checking in
just think my game will deteriorate while i cant play (no internet access nor can i get access either!)