knocked out early by KK in $200 buyin

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09-10-2005, 05:29 PM
Erazman

knocked out early by KK in $200 buyin

i was looking forward to this tournament all month. It's too bad i made like 1000th place.

I dont have the hand history but its easy to remember...

The game had just started, and i had no information on the other players.

Blinds were $15/$30. I had 2000. Opponent had 2000.

I get dealt QQ in middle position.

With no callers, i raise $90. Pot is now $125.

Opponent, who is also in middle position, raises me, betting $210.

I call his raise.

Everybody else folds.

The pot is now $465.

The flop comes up ... Jc 8d 4c

I bet the pot (465).

He calls.

Pot is 930. Turn comes up... Jc 8d 4c 2c

I check.

He bets the pot (930).

I call.

The pot is now 2790

River comes up... Jc 8d 4c 2c 10s

I go all-in.

He goes all-in.

He has KK... i lose.

Could i have played this any differently?? Should i have taken his preflop raise more seriously? Or was this just bad luck?
09-10-2005, 09:56 PM
Iconoclastic

Preflop push/fold
09-11-2005, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iconoclastic

Preflop push/fold

T.J. Cloutier says after you get reraised preflop, there's only one hand he'll reraise the guy back with, aces. But how the hell do you find a fold in there?
09-11-2005, 01:34 AM
gabe

don't bet the flop, check and see what he does.
09-14-2005, 04:53 PM
Xanadu

T.J. Cloutier is either lying or stupid to say he'll only reraise with AA ... otherwise everyone else would always know he had AA when he reraised.
09-16-2005, 04:24 PM
pantherhound

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanadu

T.J. Cloutier is either lying or stupid to say he'll only reraise with AA ... otherwise everyone else would always know he had AA when he reraised.

he meant a re-reraise.
09-16-2005, 06:29 PM
michael1123

Pushing preflop would be a pretty horrid play with this deep of stacks.

Check the flop for sure. After that though, you're probably pretty doomed to go broke here, as the pot is already so big. To let it go, you'd need a certain type of betting pattern and a hell of a read.

If you were already weary that he likely had AA, KK, or JJ when he reraised you preflop, and were on the lookout for this, it would be possible to lay it down if you just called his bet on the flop. Lets say a non-club came on the turn, and you checked and he went all in, or at the very least made a near pot sized bet. Its possible to lay it down. Tough laydown, but very possible.

You know, looking back at the hand, I may have been able to get away from this one, even if I played it like you did. I'm suspecting that you didn't have the Q of clubs since you didn't mention it. When that club comes on the turn, you kind of have to put him on either a flush, an overpair, or a set with that bet, and you have the smallest possible overpair. Its hard to imagine that he'd reraise you preflop with AJ. Almost everyone would just call preflop with AJ in a $200 buyin tournament, and that's like the only possible hand you beat here. Still though ... its always tough to get away from big pocket pairs when there isn't an overcard on the board.
09-17-2005, 11:56 AM
melinda27

You had to know you were beaten by the turn. There are virtually no hands he could hold that he would reraise preflop that you are beating. I'd guess his range of hands to be AKs, AA, KK or at the loosest QQ and JJ added there. If he has AKs, from the smooth call and bet on the 3rd club i'd at least consider AKc and get out there, you're way behind to JJ at the moment as well as AA and KK. I just cant find a call to the turn bet.
11-26-2005, 01:24 AM
Lukie

I don't really see any reason that you need to go broke here. This is how I look at the situation...

It's the start of a high stakes buy-in tournament, and you have to assume your opponents are competant until they prove otherwise. You open raise, and he comes on top of you with a lot of players still to act.

Because of this, and because the blinds are very low compared to the stack sizes, you have to know he has a real hand. AA/KK are probably the most likely. To be realistic, we can throw AK and JJ in this category too. These hands likely call your raise though this early in the tournament.

This is how I'd handle this situation.. call preflop. Look to hit the set.. ideally on a Q high flop. When the flop comes down J84, you have to know there is a good chance you are behind. AA/KK/JJ all have you dominated, and AK certainly isn't going to pay you off if you bet hard into him.

I check here and if he fires out a respectable bet, I'd let him have it. Against a very agressive player maybe you can go for a check-raise or bet out, but I don't see the point of going the distance here out of position when you are likely dominated and losing your stack if you are behind, and winning a modest pot if you are ahead. JMHO..