An AP $200NL AA hand

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10-24-2005, 03:10 PM
lowBoy

An AP $200NL AA hand

Most people that came and went at this Absolute $200NL table were pretty weak but I had no read on SINA (she just sat down 3 hands ago).

STAGE #211403634: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $0.50 - 2005-10-24 12:32:08 (ET)
Table: BROADWAY ST (Real Money) Seat #2 is the dealer
Seat 2 - SINA ($202.90 in chips)
Seat 3 - NALLO ($188.20 in chips)
Seat 4 - RD_KING ($39.50 in chips)
Seat 6 - BUNTYMCCRUMP ($282.20 in chips)
Seat 7 - SYMPTOM ($59.40 in chips)
Seat 8 - GETTUM ($131.50 in chips)
Seat 9 - DANAFUEL ($198.90 in chips)
Seat 1 - BIGUNIT53 ($37 in chips)
NALLO - Posts small blind $0.50
RD_KING - Posts big blind $1
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to BUNTYMCCRUMP [Ac Ad]
BUNTYMCCRUMP - Calls $1
SYMPTOM - Folds
GETTUM - Folds
DANAFUEL - Folds
BIGUNIT53 - Calls $1
SINA - Raises $5 to $5
NALLO - Folds
RD_KING - Folds
BUNTYMCCRUMP - Raises $14 to $15
BIGUNIT53 - Folds
SINA - Calls $10
*** FLOP *** [5h 5s Kd]
BUNTYMCCRUMP - Bets $34
SINA - Raises $100 to $100
BUNTYMCCRUMP - Calls $66
*** TURN *** [5h 5s Kd] [4s]
BUNTYMCCRUMP - Checks
SINA - Bets $87
BUNTYMCCRUMP - All-In(Raise) $167.20 to $167.20

Discuss.
10-24-2005, 03:27 PM
r8ed

Tough one. Most likely KK or AK. I would think KK and they know you have AA based on the preflop betting.
10-24-2005, 03:36 PM
PokerPatNEU

Thats some kind of raise on the flop if she actually is holding KK for the nuts. I would be more inclined to think that the majority of players would smooth call there with an almost unbeatable hand. I think it might be the other two aces, or AK.

Why check the turn if you're planning on coming over the top? I don't think you have enough chips to get any additional value from a check/raise here, because any bet they make will pretty much pot commit them even if they do only have AK.
10-24-2005, 03:48 PM
lowBoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerPatNEU

Why check the turn if you're planning on coming over the top?

I checked because I had a momentary doubt about my reasoning, which was the same as yours. Right after I checked I smacked my head until she pushed all in - well, almost all in. When you use the bet slider Absolute leaves behind your non-dollar chips so I wanted to get her last $0.67 or so.
10-24-2005, 03:52 PM
STIdrivr

i think he has AK or KK maybe
10-24-2005, 04:04 PM
Kiriath

kk or shes a moron
10-24-2005, 04:05 PM
Kiriath

that being said, if she got kk I LOVE her play.
10-24-2005, 04:45 PM
edudlive

If she has KK then thats an interesting line. Most players would smooth call that flop, considering they should know you for KK (which if they hold KK, is now impossible) or AA...and holding KK would give them an almost outdrawable hand. I'm going to think AK here, AK can (and might depending on her style) reraise preflop, and since it seems she's betting to protect a hand almost on the flop, its possible she has that.
10-24-2005, 04:50 PM
lowBoy

I think that I'm ahead here against the average player enough to make me commit my stack to this hand. People *usually* re-re-raise with KK preflop and her lack of a flop smooth call indicates that I'm up against AK most of the time.

NEW QUESTION:

Assuming that she's got AK what's the best way to get her stack here after she re-raises my flop bet?

Both streets could bring a K, which I'd pretty much have to fold to. Do I risk too much by not pushing her flop bet, and futher risk by checking the turn? I think she's tied to this pot pretty strongly, but appearing weak is often the best approach to tipping someone over the edge.
10-24-2005, 04:52 PM
lowBoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

AK can (and might depending on her style) reraise preflop

She was the initial raiser.
10-24-2005, 04:52 PM
edudlive

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowBoy

I think that I'm ahead here against the average player enough to make me commit my stack to this hand. People *usually* re-re-raise with KK preflop and her lack of a flop smooth call indicates that I'm up against AK most of the time.

NEW QUESTION:

Assuming that she's got AK what's the best way to get her stack here after she re-raises my flop bet?

Both streets could bring a K, which I'd pretty much have to fold to. Do I risk too much by not pushing her flop bet, and futher risk by checking the turn? I think she's tied to this pot pretty strongly, but appearing weak is often the best approach to tipping someone over the edge.

Think about it, KK would have had a reraise war with you even at those limits most likely. If you wanted to get ALL the chips in, seeming weak (either a small bet or the check raise all in like you did) on the turn is probably the best way to get her to commit them

How'd the hand go?
10-24-2005, 05:30 PM
lowBoy

Well, it was a check-call AI, my raise was only because Absolute keeps the cents behind when someone uses the slider to push AI.

I think seeming weak is good as my call of her flop raise could have set off alarm bells in her head... on second thought, checking and betting small amounts (1/5 of the pot is half her stack) usually come off as strong moves. The best move might just be to push that turn.

Fortunately it didn't set any alarm bells off in her head...

SINA - All-In $0.90
BUNTYMCCRUMP - returned ($79.30) : not called
*** RIVER *** [5h 5s Kd 4s] [4h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SINA - Shows [Kh As] (Two Pairs, kings and fives)
BUNTYMCCRUMP - Shows [Ac Ad] (Two Pairs, aces and fives)
BUNTYMCCRUMP Collects $405.30 from main pot

:) Biggest pot I've ever taken.
10-24-2005, 06:32 PM
edudlive

Wow, my reasoning was right? Sweet. She was an idiot for calling that re-reraise preflop, at best she was looking for a coinflip against QQ, and I wouldn't see QQ re-reraising there ;)

Congrats and nice hand.
10-25-2005, 01:28 PM
STIdrivr

if he had KK and just called your raise pre flop then he would play it slower when he hit top boat for sure.
10-25-2005, 01:53 PM
r8ed

It smelled like AK, but some people bet like this to pretend like they have AK when they actually do have KK - and they know you have AA. It would be a great pla y on their part if they had KK and played it this way. Everyone is thinking - "Only a moron would fast play the nuts". Would this work at 200NL? I don't think people are smart enough at 25NL (where I play), but I figure by that level it may work.
10-25-2005, 02:01 PM
mxiu

Like a lot of people have said, the only time you're beaten is when the opp puts you on AA and plays the nut boat fast.

Other than that, I would expect to get paid on this flop with AA.

To answer your question about extracting value from AK, they only have 2 outs. It's a pretty safe move to call the re-raise and wait for them to move in on you.
10-25-2005, 02:06 PM
ImMrFish

Am I the only one who hits my set and plays it hyper agressive on the flop because no one expects that?
10-25-2005, 03:11 PM
Rondavu

Not that I haven't seen the results, but STIDriver was right on. A person that doesn't push preflop with KK, doesn't get heavy when they flop top set. It was an obvious AK all day.
10-25-2005, 03:14 PM
Rondavu

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImMrFish

Am I the only one who hits my set and plays it hyper agressive on the flop because no one expects that?

No you're not, but that would make you a fast player, and it would show in other areas of your game. If I sat with you long enough, I might give you credit for playing top set fast.
10-25-2005, 03:23 PM
UG

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImMrFish

Am I the only one who hits my set and plays it hyper agressive on the flop because no one expects that?

No, you're not the only player that plays his sets fast.