Weak bet on flop?

I've been thinking about this hand for the past 24 hours. I'm really unsure of it, so I thought I'd make my first post and also get some advice at the same time.

I've just sat down at the table and this is probably the 5th hand I've been dealt. I really dislike getting overinvolved in hands where I otherwise wouldn't even be seeing a flop, so I may be playing a little cautious being in the big blind. Theres nothing worse to me than losing a pot when I really had no intention of playing in the first place. However, the more I look back at this hand the more I am really bothered by my play. The best I can narrow it down to is a weak opening bet on the flop.

For some reason I was really bothered by the raise from MP2 on the flop. I am suspecting that he either flopped a straight or trips. I decide to get away from the hand as my 2 pair is unlikely to improve. Of course I start kicking myself in the ass when I see the turn. So, where did I go wrong here?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP2 ($22.20)
CO ($29.75)
Button ($39.35)
SB ($36.25)
Connexx ($24.75)
UTG ($9.75)
UTG+1 ($4.90)
MP1 ($23.70)

Preflop: Connexx is BB with Q:spade:, 9:spade:.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, SB completes, Connexx checks.

Flop: ($1.50) Q:heart:, J:spade:, 9:diamond: (6 players)
SB checks, Connexx bets $0.75, MP1 calls $0.75, MP2 raises to $2.25, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, Connexx folds, MP1 calls $1.50.

Turn: ($6.75) Q:diamond: (2 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 bets $2.5, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: $9.25

Results
No showdown. MP2 wins $9.25.

turns out MP2 is holding Kh Jc.

Yes, your flop bet is weak with that board. You need to chase anybody with Tx away from their open-ender. If somebody flopped the straight, then hopefully they won't slow play it and you won't lose too much. You're fold after the raise was only semi-weak. MP2 sensed weakness (even though you were actually quite strong here) on your bet and semi bluffed to try and take the pot down. At $25NL, I'd call this flop almost every time(even if he re-raised my flop pot-bet) and then see what he does to my Pot-bet (probably 3/4ths Pot with the Boat) on the turn. (with KJ, he woulda folded like a lawnchair.. or try to represent the Q, which would be fun...)

The implied odds on your 4 outer are there....

Hmmm... I was reading the HH fully expecting you to take down a huge pot.

Then I realized you folded on the flop.

:?:

You can’t fold the flop here. You have a strong two pair and a backdoor flush draw to beat a made straight [not to mention your 4 outs to a FH]. Call or raise that flop. Either is fine.

"Theres nothing worse to me than losing a pot when I really had no intention of playing in the first place."

"Of course I start kicking myself in the ass when I see the turn."

i hate these statements. you need to make all decisions based on the current information. i always find it amusing when ppl rabbit chase to see 'what would have come off'. its totally irrelevant. make the right decision every time regardless of the results.

I can understand why you dont like to be here but you're there.
Most aresuggesting cold call behind the raise. i dont know. I think thats the worst option. Looking at the preflop play can mp2 limp QJ here. I might. Would he limp KJ yes bot not 108.
I think youre actually behind higher two pair here rather than the straight. I think the straight cold calls your flop bet and doesnt raise. Sets push this flop at 25nl from what ive seen recently so 99 is out of the question.
I think the fold stops you getting stacked by QJ
I wonder what fnord would think of that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

I think the fold stops you getting stacked by QJ
I wonder what fnord would think of that

---

Meh, yeah I looked back over it and started getting there. He could be in for a world of hurt if he really only has 2 outs.

at 25nl thats the only conclusion i can draw.
gg me for once!

Thanks a lot for all the advice.

To be honest I wasn't even thinking about being up against a better 2 pair. I was thinking KT or 99. However, QJ makes even more sense now that I look at it again.

Unfortunately I didn't have enough of a feel for the raiser as this was only my 5th hand at the table. I would later discover he was a total donk, massively overbetting on ANY pair. Later I took him for all of his chips, making a nice boat on the river :D

Maybe I'm the odd guy out, but I don't think you're behind. I reraise the flop I think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sejje

Maybe I'm the odd guy out, but I don't think you're behind. I reraise the flop I think.

---

If you get called what do you do OOP on a blank turn? If you bet again and get called again? Are playing for stacks here assuming also a blank river?

IF i bet only half pot on the flop I either call or fold to his raise (read/note dependant) leaning more towards a call. If I call I probably call it down unless he turns really qute.
Unraised pot = no info. I dont mind laying the best hand down once in a while if not doing so means I have to play in the dark...

How about going for a check raise on the flop? There are four people to act after you. Say you check and villian bets out $0.75, and you check raise to $3. If he raises I can comfortably fold, and if he calls, he either has a monster or a draw (a ten). If a K or 8 falls, you can get away from the hand easily without having invested too much, and if the turn is a blank, I would bet about $5. If he does have the goods, he will most likely raise you here and you can get away from your hand, depending on the size of his raise. If it does check around and the turn is a blank you can be almost sure you have the best hand.

Quote:

---

How about going for a check raise on the flop?

---

The more I think about it, this definitely would have worked here. I've never heard or thought about check-raising to gain information, I usually reserve it for times when I have the nuts or close to it.

Is it common practice to CR for information like this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Connexx

The more I think about it, this definitely would have worked here. I've never heard or thought about check-raising to gain information, I usually reserve it for times when I have the nuts or close to it.

Is it common practice to CR for information like this?

---

I don't think of it so much as CRing for info so much as putting money in the pot when it's very likely I have the best hand. I play this hand hard (like a nut hand) unless I'm given reason to believe I might be beat. Also, you have to learn to open up your game a little by not only CRing with the nuts, but maybe w/TPTK, OESD, flush draw, etc. because an aware opponent will not pay you off with AA on a 972R flop when you hold 77 and put in a big CR.