Comments on small pocket pair, low flop hand.

I am relatively new to 6max. Table was a combo of loose and tight players, generally passive. Opp in this hand had never preflop raised before this hand.

How would you play this?

#Game No : 3220955722
***** Hand History for Game 3220955722 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, December 18, 03:53:11 EDT 2005
Table Table 66482 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: Lucky1123 ( $87.04 )
Seat 1: TheChipGimp ( $48.75 )
Seat 6: AZNXFISH ( $14.79 )
Seat 3: philc604 ( $19.10 )
Seat 5: UrStak_IsMyn ( $24.40 )
Seat 4: bvadutch ( $25 )
AZNXFISH posts small blind [$0.10].
TheChipGimp posts big blind [$0.25].
bvadutch posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheChipGimp [ 4c 4d ]
Lucky1123 folds.
philc604 raises [$1.50].
bvadutch folds.
UrStak_IsMyn folds.
AZNXFISH folds.
TheChipGimp calls [$1.25].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, 3d, 2s ]

reraise his cbet, fold if he rereraises you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by edudlive

reraise his cbet, fold if he rereraises you

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This, if he calls go for a cheap showdown, dont try to push him off (unless you spike a 4)

Pretty standard I guess.

Now how much to c/r assuming a 1/2 to potsize bet? (I'll summarize the hand results later).

Also, I understand "looking for a cheap showdown" but how is this best done out of position - check/calling to the river?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blinky

Also, I understand "looking for a cheap showdown" but how is this best done out of position - check/calling to the river?

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If you solve this problem I'll send you a token of my appreciation.

As best as I can figure, you can't expect to showdown cheap out of position in NLHE against aggro players or someone who's going crazy with a couple big cards that missed the flop.

I admire edudlive's line, but at some level you're turning your hand into 72o errr.... 94o...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blinky

Opp in this hand had never preflop raised before this hand.

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I like a fold. Maybe in another orbit or two I'll play some poker with him. Maybe I'll just never give him any action.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fnord

If you solve this problem I'll send you a token of my appreciation.

As best as I can figure, you can't expect to showdown cheap out of position in NLHE against aggro players or someone who's going crazy with a couple big cards that missed the flop.

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This brings me to a dilemma about NLHE 6-max that I'm sure all of you have already pondered. I'd like to hear those ponderings. These two are sides of the same coin:

PROBLEM 1: HOW TO SEEK A CHEAP SHOWDOWN WITH A MEDIUM POCKET PAIR ON A HARMLESS BOARD AGAINST AN OPPONENT WHO IS AT LEAST MEDIUM-AGGRESSIVE.

PROBLEM 2: HOW TO GET PEOPLE OFF A PROBABLE POCKET PAIR WHEN YOU HAVE OVERCARDS AND THEY KEEP CALLING YOUR CONT. BETS.

Figure out answers to these problems, and I think you're already approaching profitability in 6-max up to the $100 buy-in level. A lot of money changes hands in this situation, which has to be among the most common to occur in an aggressive game; so if you can consistently be on the winning side of the equation, you are probably crushing the game.

Here are my ideas - tell me what you think.

Problem 1: employ edudlive's line when you have position. OOP, play it ultra-conservative: no set, no bet.

alternate suggestion: with a perfect flop like this one (where he almost has to have an overpair to be ahead of you), and you're OOP, you might fire a 2/3 pot feeler bet and if he flat-calls (most of them will), then value-bet the turn, check/call a non-threatening river. I've used this before. The only problem is that a good, aggro player raises your bet on the flop a lot, putting you to a difficult decision; and if they figure out why you're making that bet specifically, it becomes a read which is very detrimental to you being able to keep doing it later. It invites an aggressive player to rep an overpair against you, and then you're in the dark, in an escalating pot with a weak hand. Which is why I prefer to be in position looking for a cheap showdown instead of OOP.

Problem 2: Without a read, fire the second barrel on the turn after any pre-flop raise.

The reason I say this is because it's getting to be epidemic at 6-max for players to call your pre-flop raise and then call your continuation bet on the flop (especially if they have position on you) with about anything. A modest piece of the board, a draw, or any pocket pair will call most continuation bets. But quite a lot of those hands will fold the turn unimproved if you throw out another good-sized bet. This may actually rescue the hand from unprofitability.

alternate suggestion: continuation bet much less, and then fire a big bet on the turn if they check on the flop (especially when you are OOP). Checking the flop/betting the turn seems to get a lot more respect than a standard cont. bet - I guess because everybody understands about continuation bets and gives them no respect at all, and also because there's only one more card coming as opposed to two (so more speculative hands don't feel as much like chasing). To a thinking player it may also imply that you flopped a monster and were trying to induce a bet.

Comments/thoughts?

Some opponents will call off 30 bb's of their stack with small pocket pairs after you raise preflop. These you just have to value bet when you hit a real hand.

For the others, you fire the second barrel randomly. If the only possible draw on board misses on the turn, fire a second barrel. This doesnt necessarily mean you think they're on a draw, but it helps keep it random. Or pick two numbers and roll a dice to decide on trying to second barrel. This is against non-calling stations by the way.

If I'm the one holding a small pocket pair out of position, I'm more inclined to play for sets only. In position, I'll fight them a little bit.