Good fold?

Printable View

01-11-2006, 02:52 PM
Pelion

Good fold?

First hand at a new table. Never seen this guy before in my life

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP2 ($5.28)
CO ($0.83)
Button ($1.40)
SB ($4.12)
Hero ($4)
UTG ($2.71)
UTG+1 ($5.91)
MP1 ($1.93)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K:diamond:, 3:diamond:.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 3 folds, Button calls $0.02, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.08) K:club:, J:club:, 3:heart: (4 players)
SB bets $0.08, Hero raises to $0.20, UTG+1 raises to $0.32, Button folds, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.68, UTG+1 raises to $2.48, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $3.32
01-11-2006, 02:59 PM
IowaSkinsFan

I think so, unless you think this guy overvalues hands. Other's may say push but I guess im on the conservative side.
01-11-2006, 03:03 PM
EricE

Hard to tell. He could have AK or Kxs or even just a flush draw [as opposed to hands that beat you]. Calling is certainly a gamble.
01-11-2006, 03:04 PM
Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

I think so, unless you think this guy overvalues hands. Other's may say push but I guess im on the conservative side.

Never seen him before in my life. Ever
01-11-2006, 03:20 PM
bdawg56kg

Since you have position on villian, I would call the flop 3-bet and play some poker. As played tho, I think it was a good fold, although maybe you can argue for a call since it's the penny tables? If you are going to 4-bet this flop, you should raise more, like to $1.10 or so. Raising only to $0.68 is a small raise, and doesn't get you much info on his hand, nor does it give bad odds to a draw.
01-11-2006, 07:30 PM
Pelion

He showed AA. I still think it was a good fold given that i didnt know him. Ive been burned more times than not calling this in the past. I made sure i made a note about him though :p
01-11-2006, 07:33 PM
Fnord

If you're going to dump this, dump to the cold 3-bet.

I'd probably take this all the way, but then again I play bad...
01-11-2006, 07:49 PM
bigredhoss

penny tables makes this a call imo
01-11-2006, 07:51 PM
Pyroxene

Re: Good fold?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

First hand at a new table. Never seen this guy before in my life

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP2 ($5.28)
CO ($0.83)
Button ($1.40)
SB ($4.12)
Hero ($4)
UTG ($2.71)
UTG+1 ($5.91)
MP1 ($1.93)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K:diamond:, 3:diamond:.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 3 folds, Button calls $0.02, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.08) K:club:, J:club:, 3:heart: (4 players)
SB bets $0.08, Hero raises to $0.20, UTG+1 raises to $0.32, Button folds, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.68, UTG+1 raises to $2.48, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $3.32

Given the level of the table, I am calling. I think he has AA.
01-11-2006, 07:55 PM
Fnord

Re: Good fold?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyroxene

I think he has AA.

LMAO
01-11-2006, 07:55 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

If you're going to dump this, dump to the cold 3-bet.

I'd probably take this all the way, but then again I play bad...

Would you back this hand with a 200BB stack size in a 4 way limped pot at a higher level?
01-11-2006, 07:57 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

Would you back this hand with a 200BB stack size in a 4 way limped pot at a higher level?

Not against an unknown.
01-11-2006, 08:11 PM
Pyroxene

Re: Good fold?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyroxene

I think he has AA.

LMAO

Well, reading on I see I was right, but holding that for a moment...

Do you think my read is that crazy?

The is the penny tables and the guy has limped in. This is the table where Ax is worth a 30x PF raise but you slow play AA. He may have had KK but I would have thought he would smooth call the post flop bet.

Edit: To defend further, here was my thought process. Hands that Hero is behind.

KK) I think villian would smooth call.
JJ, 33) Villian would raise PF like JJ was solid gold.
KJ) Same as JJ, 33 really though maybe more like solid silver.

Hands that villian would limp in with and then take way too far:
AA) My trap worked!
J3) Any two cards can win! this is my lucky day!

I just think that any hands that hero is actually behind, would typically have been bet harder PF with the exception of KK and I did not think the post flop re-raise fit with those tables on flopping top set.

Do you really think my take is that far off?
01-11-2006, 10:32 PM
Pelion

The vast majority of players at these stakes raise AA. Certainly at pokerstars anyway. The one hand you can't put him on here is AA. Maybe with a read that says he likes to trap, but certainly not against an unknown.

Tell me absolutely honestly, did you look up the answer before you thought/posted about the hand? :P
01-11-2006, 10:49 PM
Pyroxene

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

Tell me absolutely honestly, did you look up the answer before you thought/posted about the hand? :P

Of course not, no point in that for either of us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

The vast majority of players at these stakes raise AA. Certainly at pokerstars anyway. The one hand you can't put him on here is AA. Maybe with a read that says he likes to trap, but certainly not against an unknown.

I have never watched the micro-limits at PokerStars to be honest, but every other micro-limit I have ever seen has plenty of people that will limp in AA, even after several limpers; only to throw in everything on the flop regardless of how it lands. Not everyone at those limits plays that way, but certainly a chunk do.

If you say PokerStars is not that way at micro-limits, I will believe you. But then again, I will also point to this hand; it obviously happens there as well.
01-11-2006, 10:57 PM
Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyroxene

If you say PokerStars is not that way at micro-limits, I will believe you. But then again, I will also point to this hand; it obviously happens there as well.

Oh it definatly happens and when it does i take notes every time. The number of people who limp rather than raise AA is considerably less than 20% though IMO so theres no way im putting an unknown on AA here.
01-11-2006, 11:07 PM
Pyroxene

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyroxene

If you say PokerStars is not that way at micro-limits, I will believe you. But then again, I will also point to this hand; it obviously happens there as well.

Oh it definatly happens and when it does i take notes every time. The number of people who limp rather than raise AA is considerably less than 20% though IMO so theres no way im putting an unknown on AA here.

Alright, that being the case...

What did you think he had that you were behind? If they usually raise AA there then I assume they raise KK and JJ as well. Did you feel that 33 and KJ would play like that pre-flop? You are ahead of everything else.
01-11-2006, 11:20 PM
Pelion

33, JJ, KJ
01-12-2006, 08:32 PM
bigredhoss

how can you put him on AA thats just asdsfs
01-12-2006, 10:38 PM
Pyroxene

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigredhoss

how can you put him on AA thats just asdsfs

I went through it above, but it boils down to this:

Quote:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

At any other table I think this would be JJ, 33 or KJ. But from the micro-limit I have watched, you 30x raise KK, KJ, 33 (and Ax for that matter), but you slow play AA and then over play it on the flop. So, as I said above, the only hands that make sense from the PF limp to the obviously willing to go All-In on the flop are: AA, KK (also slow played), and J3. I think he would have smooth called the bet with top set so I discount KK. I'll admit I would not have been amazed if it was J3, but I felt AA was more likely.

The micro-tables I have watched are not good poker, but they have a consistency to the betting. It's just not a good poker consistency.

Obviously a lot of people think I'm crazy (or a liar apparently) but the play and the $0.02 limit shouted AA to me. I am not God's gift to poker, maybe this is just a case of a broken clock being right twice a day.