Flopped boat line.

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02-16-2006, 01:22 PM
dsaxton

Flopped boat line.

Second hand at table, but given opponents short stack and preflop minraise, it's safe to assume he's bad.

This line worked out well, but is there a better one? Perhaps check-call the turn then make a huge lead on the river?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB ($106.35)
UTG ($69.70)
MP ($193.70)
Button ($291.25)
Hero ($210.10)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q:diamond:, 9:diamond:.
UTG calls $2, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB raises to $4, UTG calls $2, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($12) Q:spade:, 9:spade:, Q:club: (3 players)
Hero bets $8, BB calls $8, UTG folds.

Turn: ($28) 4:club: (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $10, Hero raises to $24, BB calls $14.

River: ($76) 3:heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $54, BB calls $54.

Final Pot: $184
02-16-2006, 01:47 PM
bdawg56kg

I probably CR the turn a little more, like to $30 and push river. Looks good though.

Edit: What makes you so sure he will bet the turn when checked to? If you had a read that led you to believe he will bet, then I like it, but otherwise I don't mind leading again for $20 or so. The last thing you want here is the turn to get checked around.
02-16-2006, 03:00 PM
Fnord

Size the turn + river to get all of the money into the pot.
02-16-2006, 03:31 PM
r8ed

Nice. I often check this on the flop hoping the original raiser puts a bet in and hopefully the other guy calls it. Then I'll reraise if necessary. I like that you bet out and got called though.

Should I be betting these like you did? wtf did he have?
02-16-2006, 05:55 PM
dsaxton

Quote:

Originally Posted by r8ed

Nice. I often check this on the flop hoping the original raiser puts a bet in and hopefully the other guy calls it. Then I'll reraise if necessary. I like that you bet out and got called though.

Should I be betting these like you did? wtf did he have?

He had kings. Betting out builds the pot when he may check behind on the flop, and it also confuses my opponent. When I start showing a strength on the latter streets, he'll be more prone to call me as he'll be confused by my bet on the flop. If I check-call the flop, then start raising and reraising on the turn and river, or check-raise the flop (which are really the only alternatives to leading the flop), I might as well just turn my hand up on the table.
02-16-2006, 07:53 PM
zenbitz

If villian is aggro, can you make the flop bet even donkier? Like $6?

This is obviously one of those hands where it pays to have been PFR/C-bet every time.

The turn check/raise looks suspecious as hell. The :4c: was your card? You are saying "I have a Q" here. I suppose if villain can't beat Q2, he's not likely to give you much more money... I might lead out again for like 8 on the turn. Weak, but not super trappy like checking.
02-16-2006, 10:09 PM
dsaxton

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbitz

If villian is aggro, can you make the flop bet even donkier? Like $6?

This is obviously one of those hands where it pays to have been PFR/C-bet every time.

The turn check/raise looks suspecious as hell. The :4c: was your card? You are saying "I have a Q" here. I suppose if villain can't beat Q2, he's not likely to give you much more money... I might lead out again for like 8 on the turn. Weak, but not super trappy like checking.

There's no way to play this hand that isn't either suspicious at some point, or obvious.
02-17-2006, 12:24 AM
bdawg56kg

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

There's no way to play this hand that isn't either suspicious at some point, or obvious.

This is true, but like I said in my post above, why were you so sure he would bet the turn? I think a LOT of hands will check behind here, AA and KK being two of them. If villian is donkish enough to bet AA/KK/JJ/TT when checked to on the turn, then he certainly isn't folding to a strong 3/4 pot turn bet. Therefore I think leading the turn is the safest way to ensure building the pot as well as being the most disguised line IMO.
02-17-2006, 02:58 AM
Demiparadigm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

There's no way to play this hand that isn't either suspicious at some point, or obvious.

This is true, but like I said in my post above, why were you so sure he would bet the turn? I think a LOT of hands will check behind here, AA and KK being two of them. If villian is donkish enough to bet AA/KK/JJ/TT when checked to on the turn, then he certainly isn't folding to a strong 3/4 pot turn bet. Therefore I think leading the turn is the safest way to ensure building the pot as well as being the most disguised line IMO.

Why would TT-AA ever consider checking behind on this turn?
02-17-2006, 05:06 AM
bdawg56kg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

Why would TT-AA ever consider checking behind on this turn?

For pot control. TT-AA cannot stand a turn CR, but can afford to call $20-25 on the river.
02-17-2006, 01:25 PM
dsaxton

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

Why would TT-AA ever consider checking behind on this turn?

For pot control. TT-AA cannot stand a turn CR, but can afford to call $20-25 on the river.

You're offering an argument as to why a player with one of these hands "should" check the term. That doesn't mean most players with these hands usually will.
02-17-2006, 10:17 PM
bdawg56kg

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

For pot control. TT-AA cannot stand a turn CR, but can afford to call $20-25 on the river.

You're offering an argument as to why a player with one of these hands "should" check the term. That doesn't mean most players with these hands usually will.

You're right. I probably am giving this villian too much credit. But think about this. If he is stubborn enough to call a turn CR like as played, don't you think he calls a strong lead on the turn as well? And hence if he calls the turn with TT-AA, don't you think he calls a big river lead too?