*** Yawn *** Another AA hand

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t40 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP1 (t2000)
MP2 (t2000)
MP3 (t2000)
CO (t2000)
Button (t2000)
Hero (t2000)
BB (t2000)
UTG (t2000)
UTG+1 (t2000)
UTG+2 (t2000)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A:spade:, A:heart:.
7 folds, Button raises to t100, Hero raises to t243, 1 fold, Button calls t143.

Flop: (t526) K:heart:, 7:club:, K:club: (2 players)
Hero checks, button bets 133, hero raises to 692, button raises to 1118, hero ...

Edit: I should add this is the very first hand of the tourney, and I know no one at the table. It's a $55 Party Poker table.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=29446

How much would ur line differ from the reriase and then fold to all in, or if he flat calls u push the turn line that trickflow offers in the post above.

If we replaced ur Hand with QQ here, how much does ur line change? Is it that big of a difference here between QQ and AA?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vqc

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=29446

How much would ur line differ from the reriase and then fold to all in, or if he flat calls u push the turn line that trickflow offers in the post above.

If we replaced ur Hand with QQ here, how much does ur line change? Is it that big of a difference here between QQ and AA?

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Here's the thing. He didn't move allin. I think if he moves allin here, his range is a little wider.

2 questions:

- Why is the reraise so small PF?
- Were you looking for anything else than a fold with that check-raise?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JPSlayerNuts

2 questions:

- Why is the reraise so small PF?
- Were you looking for anything else than a fold with that check-raise?

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#1 - good question
#2 - I'd tolerate a call.

Edit: In fact, I'd prefer to see a push over a reraise.

It seems to me that if you should ever fold AA on a board with paired kings, this is the time to do it. I can't imagine a line that more strongly screams king than your opps line in this hand.

That said, I don't know if you can ever fold once this many chips are in the pot, but if it's possible, this is your best opportunity to do so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rockymv

It seems to me that if you should ever fold AA on a board with paired kings, this is the time to do it. I can't imagine a line that more strongly screams king than your opps line in this hand.

That said, I don't know if you can ever fold once this many chips are in the pot, but if it's possible, this is your best opportunity to do so.

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I think he has more than just a king, fwiw.

The three hands better than just a king that I can think of are KK, 77, and Kxs. I feel like he would've played KK and 77 a little slower on the flop (or am I wrong about this since by your flop check-raise you've basically announced your hand?). Did you think he had kings plus the flush draw?

I think it sucks to make such a small reraise preflop, especially if you're in the blinds. You're going to be out of position for the entire hand. If you have position, the small reraise is not as bad because you can at least try to use your position to check behind and keep the pot small if you get a terrible flop like this one. Even so, I'd raise to at least 300.

I think you have to fold unless you have a read that this opponent would make this play without at least trips.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcatdog

I think it sucks to make such a small reraise preflop, especially if you're in the blinds. You're going to be out of position for the entire hand. If you have position, the small reraise is not as bad because you can at least try to use your position to check behind and keep the pot small if you get a terrible flop like this one. Even so, I'd raise to at least 300.

I think you have to fold unless you have a read that this opponent would make this play without at least trips.

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well put...i agree

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rockymv

The three hands better than just a king that I can think of are KK, 77, and Kxs. I feel like he would've played KK and 77 a little slower on the flop (or am I wrong about this since by your flop check-raise you've basically announced your hand?). Did you think he had kings plus the flush draw?

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What about K7? I figured he had K7 or 77.

Also, how can he have kings AND the FD?

OK it was late....77 seems a whole lot more likely than K7, though I guess I don't see how you can distinguish between the way just a king and better than a king would play this flop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rockymv

OK it was late....77 seems a whole lot more likely than K7, though I guess I don't see how you can distinguish between the way just a king and better than a king would play this flop.

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While I agree with your assessment, he showed me K7 of spades. I think part of our problem playing poker, is that we often give our opponents too much credit. We really need to open up our hand ranges when we are making analysis on a preflop and flop basis. Once you get to the turn and river, you can obviously narrow it down quite a bit more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scuba Chuck

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rockymv

OK it was late....77 seems a whole lot more likely than K7, though I guess I don't see how you can distinguish between the way just a king and better than a king would play this flop.

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While I agree with your assessment, he showed me K7 of spades. I think part of our problem playing poker, is that we often give our opponents too much credit. We really need to open up our hand ranges when we are making analysis on a preflop and flop basis. Once you get to the turn and river, you can obviously narrow it down quite a bit more.

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But surely when you have no reads you have to default to assuming your opponent is a standard TAgg, and give him respect until a read proves that you shouldn't.

What I'm saying is that you shouldn't widen hand ranges until a read tells you to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dwarfman

But surely when you have no reads you have to default to assuming your opponent is a standard TAgg, and give him respect until a read proves that you shouldn't.

What I'm saying is that you shouldn't widen hand ranges until a read tells you to.

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That's funny, I generally think the exact opposite. For an extreme example, my default opinion is to NEVER fold KK preflop in a sng. In the old party structure I did so ONCE, and it was because I knew my opponent well, and I knew his hand range was KK or AA. (I was right, he went to showdown with 2 others, and he had AA).

I seriously think we are making tooo many mistakes if we are assuming our opponents are Tags first, Lags afterwards. I think on average your opponents play far too few hands a night/week/month for them to play a TAG style. They want to play. So you're going to see a lot of sooted cards, weak aces, connectors, etc.

I got knocked out the other day when I planned a stop n go with a real shitty hand, but it was the best move at the time. Anyway, L4 or 5 I think. CO raised me. I called and pushed the flop. The flop had two hearts, and he called with his flush draw. He had 23 of hearts. My point is, I've just seen far far too many people "playing" cards than playing poker.

I'm with Scuba. On a new table with no reads, I assume my opponents are LAggs until I see otherwise.

I agree to a point...but if we widen our opponents ranges so much that we assume they're calling preflop reraises K7, the utility of putting opponents on ranges kind of goes out the window.

You'd be hard pressed to convince that this kind of play is the norm at the 55's, such that we should assume that unknown opponents are playing this way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rockymv

I agree to a point...but if we widen our opponents ranges so much that we assume they're calling preflop reraises K7, the utility of putting opponents on ranges kind of goes out the window.

You'd be hard pressed to convince that this kind of play is the norm at the 55's, such that we should assume that unknown opponents are playing this way.

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I think people like to "play." So let's say they are raising the top ~ 30% of hands in THIS spot. I would think that K7s, which falls as the 48th best starting hand, fits that profile. See KS Chart