Why I love Trips; Is this considered Trapping?

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04-02-2006, 04:50 PM
johnnyBuz

Why I love Trips; Is this considered Trapping?

For some reason, I only feel comfortable with 3x BB raises at .25/.50 rather then the 4x BB which I mix in at .10/.25. I feel like less would call unless I did it more often, which I would have to start bluffing a bit more to do so. Anyway, this is why I like raising as opposed to limping. It builds the pot preflop, and attaches some people to their cards especially if they hit. Trips are hard to detect, so I'm sure he thought he had the best hand after the flop and most likely after the turn (check raise). Is reraising a raiser who raised you usually the way to trap people or is there a better way of going about this?

PokerStars Game #4498758385: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/04/02 - 16:37:35 (ET)
Table 'Scheila' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: mypot31778 ($16.30 in chips)
Seat 2: kurtt69 ($26.35 in chips)
Seat 3: Mixed Karma ($56.30 in chips)
Seat 4: UWZERO20 ($20 in chips)
Seat 5: johnnyBuz ($34.60 in chips)
Seat 6: quietstorm01 ($11.40 in chips)
quietstorm01: posts small blind $0.25
mypot31778: posts big blind $0.50
UWZERO20: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to johnnyBuz [8s 8c]
kurtt69: folds
Mixed Karma: folds
UWZERO20: checks
johnnyBuz: raises $1 to $1.50
quietstorm01: folds
mypot31778: calls $1
UWZERO20: folds
*** FLOP *** [8d 9h As]
mypot31778: checks
johnnyBuz: checks
*** TURN *** [8d 9h As] [Kc]
mypot31778: checks
johnnyBuz: bets $1.50
mypot31778: raises $3 to $4.50
johnnyBuz: raises $11.50 to $16
mypot31778: calls $10.30 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [8d 9h As Kc] [4h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mypot31778: shows [Ah 9s] (two pair, Aces and Nines)
johnnyBuz: shows [8s 8c] (three of a kind, Eights)
johnnyBuz collected $31.70 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $33.35 | Rake $1.65
Board [8d 9h As Kc 4h]
Seat 1: mypot31778 (big blind) showed [Ah 9s] and lost with two pair, Aces and Nines
Seat 2: kurtt69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Mixed Karma folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: UWZERO20 folded before Flop
Seat 5: johnnyBuz (button) showed [8s 8c] and won ($31.70) with three of a kind, Eights
Seat 6: quietstorm01 (small blind) folded before Flop
04-02-2006, 05:03 PM
johnnyBuz

This doesn't really pertain to this hand but it goes along with the same theory. I'm pretty convinced that people hate being pushed around after they raise and will call the reraise with much worse hands then they normally would if you just raised that ammount initially. I think people tend to think you are bluffing alot if you reraise just trying to steal their $3 when you are really after their whole stack.

PokerStars Game #4498917223: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/04/02 - 16:52:16 (ET)
Table 'Scheila' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Jillikens06 ($22.40 in chips)
Seat 2: kurtt69 ($30.35 in chips)
Seat 4: UWZERO20 ($24.60 in chips)
Seat 5: johnnyBuz ($53.45 in chips)
Seat 6: quietstorm01 ($6.40 in chips)
johnnyBuz: posts small blind $0.25
quietstorm01: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to johnnyBuz [Qs Qd]
Jillikens06: calls $0.50
kurtt69: folds
UWZERO20: folds
johnnyBuz: raises $1.50 to $2
quietstorm01: folds
Jillikens06: raises $1.50 to $3.50
johnnyBuz: raises $18.50 to $22
Jillikens06: raises $0.40 to $22.40 and is all-in
johnnyBuz: calls $0.40
*** FLOP *** [5d 7s 3s]
*** TURN *** [5d 7s 3s] [8h]
*** RIVER *** [5d 7s 3s 8h] [Ks]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
johnnyBuz: shows [Qs Qd] (a pair of Queens)
Jillikens06: mucks hand
johnnyBuz collected $43.30 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $45.30 | Rake $2
Board [5d 7s 3s 8h Ks]
Seat 1: Jillikens06 mucked [3c Ad]
Seat 2: kurtt69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: UWZERO20 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: johnnyBuz (small blind) showed [Qs Qd] and won ($43.30) with a pair of Queens
Seat 6: quietstorm01 (big blind) folded before Flop
04-02-2006, 05:44 PM
dsaxton

Re: Why I love Trips; Is this considered Trapping?

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

For some reason, I only feel comfortable with 3x BB raises at .25/.50 rather then the 4x BB which I mix in at .10/.25. I feel like less would call unless I did it more often, which I would have to start bluffing a bit more to do so. Anyway, this is why I like raising as opposed to limping. It builds the pot preflop, and attaches some people to their cards especially if they hit. Trips are hard to detect, so I'm sure he thought he had the best hand after the flop and most likely after the turn (check raise). Is reraising a raiser who raised you usually the way to trap people or is there a better way of going about this?

PokerStars Game #4498758385: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/04/02 - 16:37:35 (ET)
Table 'Scheila' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: mypot31778 ($16.30 in chips)
Seat 2: kurtt69 ($26.35 in chips)
Seat 3: Mixed Karma ($56.30 in chips)
Seat 4: UWZERO20 ($20 in chips)
Seat 5: johnnyBuz ($34.60 in chips)
Seat 6: quietstorm01 ($11.40 in chips)
quietstorm01: posts small blind $0.25
mypot31778: posts big blind $0.50
UWZERO20: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to johnnyBuz [8s 8c]
kurtt69: folds
Mixed Karma: folds
UWZERO20: checks
johnnyBuz: raises $1 to $1.50
quietstorm01: folds
mypot31778: calls $1
UWZERO20: folds
*** FLOP *** [8d 9h As]
mypot31778: checks
johnnyBuz: checks
*** TURN *** [8d 9h As] [Kc]
mypot31778: checks
johnnyBuz: bets $1.50
mypot31778: raises $3 to $4.50
johnnyBuz: raises $11.50 to $16
mypot31778: calls $10.30 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [8d 9h As Kc] [4h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mypot31778: shows [Ah 9s] (two pair, Aces and Nines)
johnnyBuz: shows [8s 8c] (three of a kind, Eights)
johnnyBuz collected $31.70 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $33.35 | Rake $1.65
Board [8d 9h As Kc 4h]
Seat 1: mypot31778 (big blind) showed [Ah 9s] and lost with two pair, Aces and Nines
Seat 2: kurtt69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Mixed Karma folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: UWZERO20 folded before Flop
Seat 5: johnnyBuz (button) showed [8s 8c] and won ($31.70) with three of a kind, Eights
Seat 6: quietstorm01 (small blind) folded before Flop

Bet the flop.
04-02-2006, 05:50 PM
johnnyBuz

Hmm that could work out as well. Betting the flop with a decent sized bet could induce him to go all-in, but it's impossible for me to know if he had an Ace or a hand at all. I figured by the turn he had to have one or the other, and it worked out great that he had 2 pair.
04-02-2006, 05:54 PM
dsaxton

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

Hmm that could work out as well. Betting the flop with a decent sized bet could induce him to go all-in, but it's impossible for me to know if he had an Ace or a hand at all. I figured by the turn he had to have one or the other, and it worked out great that he had 2 pair.

Play the hand under the assumption he has an ace. If he doesn't have one, what do you gain by checking? If he does, he will call, and perhaps raise, allowing you to trap him for a big turn bet.
04-02-2006, 06:31 PM
Iwind

agree, people in general slowplay far too much when there is no reason to imo
04-03-2006, 10:59 AM
alias2211

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Play the hand under the assumption he has an ace. If he doesn't have one, what do you gain by checking? If he does, he will call, and perhaps raise, allowing you to trap him for a big turn bet.

when you have a good hand like a set on the flop, you want to win a big pot. it's not going to get bigger by checking the flop in most cases, ideally you'll be betting on all streets. also, a set isn't invincible. you can probably check a flopped boat in some instances, but a middle set is just a middle set, and it's vulnerable even though it's a good hand.
04-03-2006, 11:13 AM
boost

well .. yah and he had bottom set, which esp after we see villains cards is even more susceptable to a draw. Like everyone else said, bet the flop. Why wouldnt you? What is your reason for checking? What does a check acheive in this situation?
04-03-2006, 01:23 PM
johnnyBuz

so check, calling, raising the turn doesn't really disguise your hand like i thought it would? would betting the flop maybe make him think i had AK, AQ, AJ, etc? that could spook him when the K comes on the turn though couldn't it?
04-03-2006, 02:32 PM
bair

1. no thats not trapping
2. bet the flop
3. no its not disguising your hand, the only way to disguise a set is by betting
04-04-2006, 05:39 AM
boost

Im not trying to be rude, but I just dont think you are thinking about what you are saying. You have a very strong hand, how are you disguising it by checking? What does checking accomplish? It makes it seem like if you bet on the turn taht you were not afraid of another card. If you bet out on the flop he thinks you want a fold. If he has nothing he folds and you wouldnt have got anything either way. If he has a hand thuogh, he pays you off because he thinks you are just trying to push him out.

Also you keep saying like "well the K woulda scared him" and stuff like this. You had no clue what his hand was though. Your overthinking it after youve seen the results. Once again, what is your action accomplishing? Its pretty obvious that the check didnt accomplish anything positive for you.
04-04-2006, 10:03 AM
WildBobAA

You disguise your hand by betting the flop no matter if you hit or miss.
04-04-2006, 01:08 PM
johnnyBuz

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildBobAA

You disguise your hand by betting the flop no matter if you hit or miss.

people catch on pretty quick when you bet every flop you're in.
04-04-2006, 01:11 PM
johnnyBuz

Quote:

Originally Posted by boostNslide

Im not trying to be rude, but I just dont think you are thinking about what you are saying. You have a very strong hand, how are you disguising it by checking? What does checking accomplish? It makes it seem like if you bet on the turn taht you were not afraid of another card. If you bet out on the flop he thinks you want a fold. If he has nothing he folds and you wouldnt have got anything either way. If he has a hand thuogh, he pays you off because he thinks you are just trying to push him out.

Also you keep saying like "well the K woulda scared him" and stuff like this. You had no clue what his hand was though. Your overthinking it after youve seen the results. Once again, what is your action accomplishing? Its pretty obvious that the check didnt accomplish anything positive for you.

if i have a set and he has nothing, how am i going to win anything on the flop? 90% of the time when i bet the flop they fold when they have nothing.

i realize slow playing is bad but sometimes you have to give them a shot at catching a card. luckily this guy had 2 pair. but if he had K8 or something, and I bet the flop, he would most likely fold.
04-04-2006, 01:18 PM
drmcboy

if he had K8, how much were you going to win by checking?
04-04-2006, 01:25 PM
dj newman

There are times when checking the flop is a good thing....but this takes very specific cases against very specific opponents....this isn't one of them. If you do not bet out your trips with an A on the board, you are losing money. Everyone loves to play their aces....make them pay for it.
Think of what hands someone calls you with here....majority of them have an A in them and they are not going to fold to a bet on the flop.
04-04-2006, 01:27 PM
dj newman

There are times when checking the flop is a good thing....but this takes very specific cases against very specific opponents....this isn't one of them. If you do not bet out your trips with an A on the board, you are losing money. Everyone loves to play their aces....make them pay for it.
Think of what hands someone calls you with here....majority of them have an A in them and they are not going to fold to a bet on the flop.
04-04-2006, 01:27 PM
dj newman

There are times when checking the flop is a good thing....but this takes very specific cases against very specific opponents....this isn't one of them. If you do not bet out your trips with an A on the board, you are losing money. Everyone loves to play their aces....make them pay for it.
Think of what hands someone calls you with here....majority of them have an A in them and they are not going to fold to a bet on the flop.
04-04-2006, 01:48 PM
Greedo017

"people catch on pretty quick when you bet every flop you're in."

catch on to what? this is pretty much the reason why you SHOULD bet the flop.

"if i have a set and he has nothing, how am i going to win anything on the flop? 90% of the time when i bet the flop they fold when they have nothing.

i realize slow playing is bad but sometimes you have to give them a shot at catching a card. luckily this guy had 2 pair. but if he had K8 or something, and I bet the flop, he would most likely fold."

there are two problems with this. one, the point of betting the flop is to build a pot gradually allowing more money to get into the pot easier, disguising your hand (think harder about this and what you said above). two, in general the only thing that someone is going to draw to that makes you suddenly get any action will beat you.
04-04-2006, 01:50 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildBobAA

You disguise your hand by betting the flop no matter if you hit or miss.

people catch on pretty quick when you bet every flop you're in.

thats the point. bet at them all!!

hopefully they play back at you when they have a pair and you have a set. if they never play back at you, you just win all the pots.
04-04-2006, 05:49 PM
boost

yah at 6 max you WANT them to 'catch on', because what exactly are they catching onto? So you raise with AQ, get a caller or two, and then rep the flop, after a while they stop folding to you here. So what? They are going to try and play back at you, fine. You lose 12bb when they reraise you on the flop and you have A high. But how much do you make when you flopped big and they play back at you? The reason you hammer the flops is so that you dont have to try and dick around checking your sets. Instead you can just hammer the flop some more, and stack them, instead of half stacking them.