how do I maximise my return here?

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05-21-2006, 01:50 PM
Staresy

how do I maximise my return here?

PokerStars 25NL (9 handed)

villian is very loose. I am fairly confident he will bet if checked to, but I'm wondering whether a weak lead might even get him to raise.

CO ($9.15)
Button ($16.30)
SB ($26.15)
BB ($33.35)
UTG ($17.85)
UTG+1 ($24.15)
Staresy ($25.60)
MP2 ($39.65)
MP3 ($16.90)

Preflop: Staresy is MP1 with 8 :club: 8 :heart:
2 folds, Staresy calls $0.25, MP2 raises to $1.25, 1 fold, CO calls $1.25, Button calls $1.25, 2 folds, Staresy calls $1.

Flop: ($5.35) 8 :spade: 5 :diamond: 7 :heart:
(4 players)
Staresy ....

(a) leads?
(b) check-raises?
(c) check-calls?
05-21-2006, 02:23 PM
WhooFleuryScores

If he's a maniac I check call flop and wait to pop turn hoping he pushes TP/overpair.If he's an elephant I donk bet into him hoping he raises and then I reraise/smooth call looking to pop raise/push turn.Against a TAG I bet out and raise to hide my set.
05-21-2006, 02:48 PM
givememyleg

I lead for around $4.

I think you can get more out of this hand if you lead rather than check raise. If he has an overpair here, he will almost certainly raise your lead.

I would never check call here.
05-21-2006, 03:22 PM
andy-akb

This flop has a pretty obvious straight draw on it, what do you do if you check-call and the turn brings a 6? I would lead for atleast $3 and hope to 3bet AI.
05-21-2006, 06:39 PM
strawman

Re: how do I maximise my return here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staresy

(a) leads?
(b) check-raises?
(c) check-calls?

I think you've managed to maximize your hand already, now its time for protection. Leading into the raiser would be my play here. Your hand isn't really stong enough here IMO to allow this to check around with a fairly coordinated flop. There's a good chance someone has an OESD or gutshot here and might try to take one off with a check. Should MP2 have an overpair you should expect a reraise since they don't want to price anyone in on this board and than you can get all your money in.
05-21-2006, 06:52 PM
WhooFleuryScores

Yeah looks like a donk lead in is best play for him to reraise allowing you to push.
05-21-2006, 07:28 PM
andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhooFleuryScores

Yeah looks like a donk lead in is best play for him to reraise allowing you to push.

A donk lead? As in a minbet? As givememyleg and I both said, I think you should be leading here and hopefully 3betting all in.
05-22-2006, 04:38 AM
strawman

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhooFleuryScores

Yeah looks like a donk lead in is best play for him to reraise allowing you to push.

A donk lead? As in a minbet? As givememyleg and I both said, I think you should be leading here and hopefully 3betting all in.

BTW, when did leading into a preflop raiser become a donk play?
05-22-2006, 04:44 AM
badandy519

Raise preflop....

As played, a limp, call, lead into the preflop raiser screams either set or 66. Having said that, I probably lead for $3 here and pray they have an overpair or want to get retarded with AK.

If you open raise here, the hand plays WAY different and you can lead and hope someone with TT+ thinks you are jacking around with AK.
05-22-2006, 02:11 PM
givememyleg

Quote:

Originally Posted by strawman

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhooFleuryScores

Yeah looks like a donk lead in is best play for him to reraise allowing you to push.

A donk lead? As in a minbet? As givememyleg and I both said, I think you should be leading here and hopefully 3betting all in.

BTW, when did leading into a preflop raiser become a donk play?

I thought the term "donk bet" meant betting into the preflop raiser.
05-22-2006, 03:08 PM
Renton

I lead for 1/2 pot on flop, call any raise and c/r all in on the turn.
05-22-2006, 04:01 PM
Staresy

just curious Renton - why wait 'til the turn to get the rest in? You think he is more likely to call then as oppose to pushing over a raise? I quite like it, but I want to make sure I am liking it for the right reasons!! I think your line kind of feigns a bit of weakness - like I took a shot at the pot, called your raise because I don't want to raise but I don't want to give up the pot yet and then I check the turn because I don't know what to and don't think I have the best hand - and encourages him to try and bully me off. Amirite?
05-22-2006, 06:49 PM
Miffed22001

rentons line is the best, leading builds the pot espcialy when your oop here.
I dont always c/r all in as it gives a half decent player the chance to get away from their hand, but mostly 25nl players wont be that good
05-22-2006, 07:43 PM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staresy

just curious Renton - why wait 'til the turn to get the rest in? You think he is more likely to call then as oppose to pushing over a raise? I quite like it, but I want to make sure I am liking it for the right reasons!! I think your line kind of feigns a bit of weakness - like I took a shot at the pot, called your raise because I don't want to raise but I don't want to give up the pot yet and then I check the turn because I don't know what to and don't think I have the best hand - and encourages him to try and bully me off. Amirite?

My line's good because it extracts a lot of money EVEN when villains hands isn't that great. They might make a play on turn apparent weakness with just overcards.

And when villains hand is strong, theres so much money in by the time I announce the strength of my hand that he is getting compelling odds to call anyway.