Standard flop push?

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06-06-2006, 02:46 AM
Cocco_Bill

Standard flop push?

Playing some Party 6-max for a change.

CO is 61/15 after 65 hands. Looks like an overaggressive fish with a wide re-rasing range.

I don't like check calling this hand out of position against a player who is likely to bet hard. My outs are clean and I feel that I have considerable folding equity here. I think pushing is the standard play in this situation. Anyone disagree?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($89.90)
Hero ($281.68)
UTG ($295.98)
MP ($252.36)
CO ($199.05)
Button ($195)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $1. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB (poster) completes, Hero raises to $10, UTG calls $10, CO raises to $30, SB folds, Hero calls $20, UTG folds.

Flop: ($79) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero calls $249.68 (All-In)
06-06-2006, 03:15 AM
Renton

so you think betting 250 has more FE than just betting 60 or 70?
06-06-2006, 03:53 AM
rebuyman

Is check-raising all-in bad?
06-06-2006, 03:55 AM
bdawg56kg

I'd be tempted to push preflop. As played, I would c/r ai on this flop.
06-06-2006, 04:16 AM
Cocco_Bill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

so you think betting 250 has more FE than just betting 60 or 70?

Yes I do think he is somewhat more likely to fold to a push than a pot sized bet. He had 160 left to call with.

If I bet 60-70 he will probably only rarely call and mostly push or fold, I will be forced to call a push.
If he calls the bet and I miss I'll be in a tough spot leaving me with checking the turn likely as the best move as my FE will be way down.

I think a set is calling the 60-70 bet more often than AA AK. AA AK is pushing more often than folding, anything less is mostly folding.

Another viable way to play this hand would have been to check raise the flop all in.
06-06-2006, 04:54 AM
Cocco_Bill

I now think that check raising all in is the better play, the pot was simply too small to open push. oh well..
06-06-2006, 05:13 AM
UG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill

I now think that check raising all in is the better play, the pot was simply too small to open push. oh well..

Yeah, you've got a little too much folding equity with a flop push, if there even is such a thing. A flop open push looks a hell of a lot like, "OMFG I AM DRAWING PLEZE FOLD," at least to me. Check-raising looks a shit-ton stronger, like you're almost saying, "Okay, you put money in.....Now I want your whole 'effing stack, please call."
06-06-2006, 05:15 AM
Lukie

I think check/push is by far the best play here to be honest.

I don't even know what to put CO on here with his post OOP, check behind a limper, 3-bet a raise from the blinds. But we have a monster on the flop with 12 nut outs, and pushing over a normal bet isn't even an overbet and gives us some FE to boot. Having it checked through is obviously not a concern.
06-06-2006, 11:40 AM
dsaxton

Not only does check-raising all-in look stronger, but you win more money when he folds. This play is much better than open betting all-in.
06-06-2006, 01:37 PM
alias2211

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Not only does check-raising all-in look stronger, but you win more money when he folds. This play is much better than open betting all-in.

yes. that open push is screaming draw, unless you also open push w/ 2pr or lower sets as well in order to keep villains guessing. then it might make sense in context.