Fold to a minbet?

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06-09-2006, 02:17 PM
freechus9

Fold to a minbet?

Villain is 61/6 over 60 hands or so.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.10 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($11)
UTG+1 ($9.30)
MP1 ($6.90)
MP2 ($4.85)
MP3 ($16.03)
CO ($4.87)
Hero ($11.05)
SB ($11.65)
BB ($6.60)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $0.10, 5 folds, Hero raises to $0.5, 1 fold, BB calls $0.40, UTG folds.

Flop: ($1.15) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets $0.1, Hero .....
06-09-2006, 02:20 PM
theDEEPdish

hes probably on a flush draw and trying to control the pot size
06-09-2006, 02:21 PM
freechus9

So should I just fold and take it another day? Or do I raise and see what he really has.
06-09-2006, 02:24 PM
KingLizard

Quote:

Originally Posted by freechus9

So should I just fold and take it another day? Or do I raise and see what he really has.

For me, I pay the .10 to see one more card. If you hit another 3, it won't help his flush draw and that's a good thing. Sure it's a 2 outer but the price seems fair (not great but okay if it's been a slow day). After the turn, it's over and out til next time.
06-09-2006, 02:26 PM
EricE

I call it. Its not w/i your odds of drawing to the set but I make bad odds calls on the flop if I think he will pay off if I hit the turn(implied odds). If he really is on a flush draw then calling is bad since you can't get him to pay unless the flush hits and if it does then you are beat.
06-09-2006, 02:28 PM
Lukie

make it $1 to go.
06-09-2006, 03:08 PM
DaHorror

It's really a play the player and the board situation - ignore your cards..he's most likely to put you on TT+/AK/AQ/KQ etc. here...

Who likes to minbet flops into the preflop raiser?
(1) Someone who is saying 'I have some sort of a pair hand - did you really hit this flop like I suspect you did? If so, please raise me now so I can just fold.'
(2) Flush draw/straight draw
(3) a Monster (pretty rare that they follow this pattern)

Readless, I'd reraise respectably here expecting to take it down. As Lukie said, $1 is fine. If called and I don't improve, I'm pretty much not putting any more money in the pot.
06-09-2006, 03:37 PM
benny999

Villain seems very loose, but still raising pre flop then raising a min bet lead is generally a high % bluff as DaHorror laid out. If you call, he might be on Q2s or a draw, so I don't like that play as much. Shut down if he calls the raise though.
06-09-2006, 07:41 PM
Fnord

Often raise
Otherwise call (if I want to see or play a turn, I play more turns than a lot of posters)
Once a blue moon I'll just fold

I think being too predictable in these spots is exploitable.
06-09-2006, 07:51 PM
jackvance

Folding is out of question. I probably call here. If he's on a flush draw, he might call if I bet.. meaning I achieved nothing.
06-09-2006, 08:50 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

If he's on a flush draw, he might call if I bet.. meaning I achieved nothing.

ZOMG, it's heads-up to a two tone flop, the other guy must have a flush draw!

I put Mr. 61/6 on bottom/middle pair before I give him credit for even a flush draw.
06-09-2006, 08:54 PM
jackvance

This is in fact how these guys often play their draws. So if you bet and he calls, the turn blanks.. he leads out for $0.1 again and you still don't have a clue if you're up against a made hand or a draw.
06-09-2006, 08:57 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

This is in fact how these guys often play their draws.

...and bottom pair... and top set... and straight draws... and two pair... and let's not forget post-oak bluffs with air.

I put him on 2 cards here without more information. I've seen too many loose players do this with any 2.

Play much heads-up poker? His hand range isn't much tighter than that.
06-09-2006, 08:59 PM
Renton

Either raise the weak bet and take it down, or call it and peel off a set with the implied odds as your reward (which wouldn't really be substantial considering he probably has a weak hand).
06-09-2006, 09:02 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Either raise the weak bet and take it down, or call it and peel off a set with the implied odds as your reward (which wouldn't really be substantial considering he probably has a weak hand).

There is also merit to calling just to see what turns and how he plays it.
06-09-2006, 09:03 PM
jackvance

Oh this is HU, didn't notice. Not that it changes too much. A minbet here is basically checking, that's the way I see it. I don't see why you'd want to bet over it just because of the minbet.. if you would do the same if he checked, then ok..

And if anyone needs another reason to see why a fold is never good here.. you have to call for 7.4% and have 8% to hit your set on the turn.. so even without implied odds you have pot odds to call.
06-09-2006, 09:04 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

If he's on a flush draw, he might call if I bet.. meaning I achieved nothing.

ZOMG, it's heads-up to a two tone flop, the other guy must have a flush draw!

I put Mr. 61/6 on bottom/middle pair before I give him credit for even a flush draw.

OBVIOUSLY!
06-10-2006, 04:02 PM
Chicago_Kid

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

Oh this is HU, didn't notice. Not that it changes too much. A minbet here is basically checking, that's the way I see it.

I greet habitual min bettors with a 3-4x raise to force him to make a play. But, if he's on a flush draw, he'll call anyway most of the time. Other times, I will call to see what he does on turn.

Being in position makes me want to see a turn, particularly if this player can fold a hand.