Ok, this one should be more straight-forward

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06-10-2006, 07:05 PM
Miffed22001

Ok, this one should be more straight-forward

50nl (200bbs max buy in)
For once, no stats (opp is actually 74/8 over 14hands but thats pretty useless)

Been here for a couple orbits, table is pretty passive and i havent played a pot beyond the flop yet.

UTG-$117
Villain-$53
Miffed-$99

Dealt to Miff :8h: :8c:

Preflop
UTG calls, Villain miniraises to $1 Miff calls $1 UTG folds.

Flop
:5c: :9d: :Qd:
Miff checks, Villain Checks

Turn
:8d:
Miff Checks, Villain bets $2 Miff raises to $6 villain calls

River
:Qs:
Miff bets $10, Villain is all in Miff?

Ok thoughts.
Villain miniraised. Ok thats a wide range probably AJ/KQ/JT/Axs type hands that are possibly dominated as well as pps.
Having miniraised and then been checked to opp checks. Odd imo, but do feel free to comment on that.
Turn i fill up. I check thinking i probably have opponent smoked so then he bets i raise and then on the value bet the full house at which point he pushes. Seems very odd but possibly familiar?
Do i call? and explain why.
06-10-2006, 07:11 PM
freechus9

I call because even after 14 hands it seems villain is looser than most. His check on the flop and bet on the turn looks like a flush/flush draw or a weak Q. When you bet on the river and he pushes, I give him credit for at least trip queens, maybe even the flush. but you have him smoked beyond that. Easy call in my opinion.
06-10-2006, 07:18 PM
Dislexsik

He can have 99 or 55,well i would play it this way and alot of players on 50NL miniraise pocketpairs.
06-10-2006, 07:21 PM
Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dislexsik

He can have 99 or 55,well i would play it this way and alot of players on 50NL miniraise pocketpairs.

so call yes/no ?
06-10-2006, 07:46 PM
Dislexsik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dislexsik

He can have 99 or 55,well i would play it this way and alot of players on 50NL miniraise pocketpairs.

so call yes/no ?

Afcourse.And pray that he was drawing for a flush. :wink:
06-10-2006, 08:53 PM
freechus9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dislexsik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dislexsik

He can have 99 or 55,well i would play it this way and alot of players on 50NL miniraise pocketpairs.

so call yes/no ?

Afcourse.And pray that he was drawing for a flush. :wink:

Still didn't answer the question. If you did it's unintelligible :roll: .
06-10-2006, 09:21 PM
Dislexsik

Quote:

Originally Posted by freechus9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dislexsik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dislexsik

He can have 99 or 55,well i would play it this way and alot of players on 50NL miniraise pocketpairs.

so call yes/no ?

Afcourse.And pray that he was drawing for a flush. :wink:

Still didn't answer the question. If you did it's unintelligible :roll: .

Wich part of "afcourse" do u NOT understand?Damn...
Or shall i say "ABSOLUTELY!!"...or what about "HELL YEAH CALL THAT RAISE YO"?
06-10-2006, 11:17 PM
andy-akb

I call because there are two hands that beat me and there is no reason a hand like AQ or KQ or QJ or anything else wouldnt play it this way, KK or AA wouldnt be unreasonable either. Id be very hardpressed to find an opponent that I would lay this down to. If you lost to a higher boat or quads, well, that happens, but I cant imagine a call is -EV
06-11-2006, 03:13 AM
bantam222

i dont see the problem...this is an insta call for me or am i reading the hand wrong?

the only hand i can see villian having that beats you is 99.
He could be pushing with AQ, flushes, 55, 67, 10J
06-11-2006, 04:06 AM
Greedo017

definitely call. higher flush/strong q/worse boat can do this. also lead the turn.
06-11-2006, 09:27 AM
Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedo017

definitely call. higher flush/strong q/worse boat can do this. also lead the turn.

why?
i dont suspect he checks behind on the flop here with a flush draw, he checks behind (like fish do on dangerous flops) with either
a. a monster
b. Nothing

Bad players bet a lot with nothing and check/small bet with a lot.
The improtant question here is: Why no flop bet?

I'll add too, i c/r'ed the turn because i thought i would be well ahead of opponents range here, im also repping a flush. So what hands call here? I think a flush 3bet/pushes, i think tp may call but its dangerous, i think a set or two pair calls. Add that information to the river. If opp has a straight a flush or trips he calls the river bet, he doesnt push all in. I though id bet enough here for opp to call with a lot of second best hands. That play makes no sense when opp pushes. If however opp flopped two pair or a set and filled up (and remember im repping a made turn flush according to the board) then pushing makes sense. In that case, what full houses to i actually beat here if we take that line of reasoning?
06-11-2006, 10:07 AM
Renton

are you honestly suggesting to us that you should have folded the 3rd (effective, I don't see Q9) nuts here?
06-11-2006, 11:03 AM
Chicago_Kid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

are you honestly suggesting to us that you should have folded the 3rd (effective, I don't see Q9) nuts here?

...if he has Q9, 99, or QQ, I pay him off instantly and say ni han. Most likely he has a flush, and he's putting you on AQ or smaller trips. Over a large sample size in limited read situations, this is a no brainer call, IMHO.
06-11-2006, 11:06 AM
Chicago_Kid

*doublepost*

Hum...I forgot about JT...possible, as he's putting you on AQ probably.
06-11-2006, 11:13 AM
Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago_Kid

*doublepost*

Hum...I forgot about JT...possible, as he's putting you on AQ probably.

AQ oop without a reraise?
No chance Id have lead the flop if i had that but then id have reraised preflop anyway and im pretty sure opp knows that.
I dont rep AQ like this on that turn board. His play makes zero sense unless i am beat.

And at no time did i insinuate i laid my hand down, at larger stakes perhaps but not at 50nl.
Still the question remains, why check the flop but then call the turn c/r but then push the river? That line makes little sense for any hands i beat imo. JT cant push over my river bet nor can any other straight, the flush 3bets the turn surely? What makes sense is two pair or a set calling to fill up, then the river makes starts to make sense. Yes/no?
06-11-2006, 01:12 PM
Chicago_Kid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago_Kid

*doublepost*

Hum...I forgot about JT...possible, as he's putting you on AQ probably.

AQ oop without a reraise?
No chance Id have lead the flop if i had that but then id have reraised preflop anyway and im pretty sure opp knows that.
I dont rep AQ like this on that turn board. His play makes zero sense unless i am beat.

And at no time did i insinuate i laid my hand down, at larger stakes perhaps but not at 50nl.
Still the question remains, why check the flop but then call the turn c/r but then push the river? That line makes little sense for any hands i beat imo. JT cant push over my river bet nor can any other straight, the flush 3bets the turn surely? What makes sense is two pair or a set calling to fill up, then the river makes starts to make sense. Yes/no?

I follow your logic here. I suppose this is academic as you're paying this off anyway? However, I think I understand the value your analysis to apply this situation to later play or higher stakes.

With bigger stacks, this does get more complicated, because you are praying for a flush or 5's full, while 99 kills you. His min raise might tell me a small pocket pair or two suited cards, as I don't see him min raising with Q9.

One final question, was this three way, or did you cut out the other players action?
06-11-2006, 02:54 PM
Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago_Kid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago_Kid

*doublepost*

Hum...I forgot about JT...possible, as he's putting you on AQ probably.

AQ oop without a reraise?
No chance Id have lead the flop if i had that but then id have reraised preflop anyway and im pretty sure opp knows that.
I dont rep AQ like this on that turn board. His play makes zero sense unless i am beat.

And at no time did i insinuate i laid my hand down, at larger stakes perhaps but not at 50nl.
Still the question remains, why check the flop but then call the turn c/r but then push the river? That line makes little sense for any hands i beat imo. JT cant push over my river bet nor can any other straight, the flush 3bets the turn surely? What makes sense is two pair or a set calling to fill up, then the river makes starts to make sense. Yes/no?

I follow your logic here. I suppose this is academic as you're paying this off anyway? However, I think I understand the value your analysis to apply this situation to later play or higher stakes.

With bigger stacks, this does get more complicated, because you are praying for a flush or 5's full, while 99 kills you. His min raise might tell me a small pocket pair or two suited cards, as I don't see him min raising with Q9.

One final question, was this three way, or did you cut out the other players action?

Hu pot
I of course called and he showed 99 (i actually read him for it but would never have folded 88 here)
It was simply that when i looked at the HH it became rather obvious imo that the flop/turn/river line suggested 88 no good.