KK overpair, position, big pot on flop...turn play?

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06-10-2006, 08:14 PM
benny999

KK overpair, position, big pot on flop...turn play?

The BB is a TAG around 16/7/2 over 100 hands, and I'm about the same. MP3 is uknown. Pre flop and flop lines are standard, right? I'm thinking my turn push had little to negative EV because I assume his range is 22-AA with those stats and line so far.

Would do anything different, like check behind or bet less on the turn and hope to induce a bet from a weaker pocket pair, (or pay off a boat/quads/AA)? Would you play the turn different if villain was LAG or LP?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($50.45)
BB ($66.85)
UTG ($44.75)
UTG+1 ($49.50)
MP1 ($45)
MP2 ($51.45)
MP3 ($55.45)
Hero ($53.60)
Button ($21)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
4 folds, MP3 raises to $1.5, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, BB calls $4.50, MP3 calls $3.50.

Flop: ($15.25) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (3 players)
BB checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets $12, BB calls $12, MP3 folds.

Turn: ($39.25) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero pushed remaining $37, BB folded
06-10-2006, 08:44 PM
freechus9

Pushing the turn is terrible IMO. Only better hands call you (flush, trips, boat). I'd check behind and see a free river. If he pushes a non-diamond river you can fold, but if its a diamond I'd call a decent bet.
06-10-2006, 10:57 PM
andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by freechus9

Pushing the turn is terrible IMO. Only better hands call you (flush, trips, boat). I'd check behind and see a free river. If he pushes a non-diamond river you can fold, but if its a diamond I'd call a decent bet.

I agree that I probably would check behind the turn and hope to get another bet out of a weaker hand, but I dont think only better hands call. What do 88, 99, TT, JJ, and QQ do? 88 and 99 may fold, but against your average $50nler you are getting a call out of TT+ and I dont think a boat is very likely with the preflop action.
06-10-2006, 11:19 PM
Galapogos

Just curious Andy but how do you figure a boat isn't likely based on the preflop action?

Anyway, this hand isn't horrible. Checking behind on the turn is definately the better play though.
06-10-2006, 11:25 PM
andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Just curious Andy but how do you figure a boat isn't likely based on the preflop action?

Because a TAGG BB is not going to cold call two bets preflop with 5s, 7s or 4s, especially when the second bet is put in from another TAGG. Is it possible? Slightly, but It is not that likely and isnt something I would worry about too much
06-11-2006, 04:49 AM
Greedo017

check behind on turn, call river.

and, i call reraises preflop with slimmer odds because i'm much more sure they have an overpair than with a normal raise.
06-11-2006, 10:35 AM
mxiu

Does anyone else bet half pot'ish here for value? $20 or so? I think you might be able to string along TT+ if you do, no?
06-11-2006, 10:57 AM
Chicago_Kid

Quote:

Originally Posted by mxiu

Does anyone else bet half pot'ish here for value? $20 or so? I think you might be able to string along TT+ if you do, no?

That's my line.
06-11-2006, 11:49 AM
a500lbgorilla

I turn it off on that turn. check and call the river.
06-11-2006, 12:48 PM
Lukie

I like the push. I check sometimes but there's a ton of value in this push and I'd like to get the money in now. I can see JJ/QQ type hands calling a lot here.

Also, once you bet your remaining $37, end the HH there. Showing that the BB folded is kind of like showing results in that people's views will be tainted by seeing that.
06-11-2006, 04:55 PM
benny999

Next time I'll leave out if they fold.

So there prob is a little value in pushing, but I like the suggestion of betting around 1/2 pot the best. Since I don't have a great read, I think I'm ahead enough times to bet and don't want to give a free card (33, 66, 88, other pairs...) but not so much he calls mostly with hands that beat me.

I've had a lot of suckouts lately, like 33/66/88 in this hand rivering a str8 or boat. Maybe I'm too paranoid, but I'm thinking checking behind is not worth the risk if I am ahead. Even if not and I do check behind I'd have a tough time folding to a river push. Maybe he'll even call 1/2 pot wtih an 88-QQ diamond draw.