Pocket Pairs Preflop.. purple penguins play poker..

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06-20-2006, 09:15 PM
euphoricism

Pocket Pairs Preflop.. purple penguins play poker..

Hand plays itself, but I'm wondering about my preflop play. Can I call this? 10x rule, right? But on hand 2, I was worried about a reraise.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($26)
SB ($13.75)
BB ($9.75)
UTG ($38.70)
Hero ($46)
CO ($26.40)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Button raises to $4, 1 fold, BB calls $3.50, UTG folds, Hero calls $3.50, CO folds.

Flop: ($13.25) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $22 (All-In), BB folds, Hero calls $22.

Turn: ($57.25) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($57.25) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $57.25

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($17.70)
CO ($15.55)
Button ($79.40)
SB ($9.90)
Hero ($46.75)
UTG ($58.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif.
3 folds, Button raises to $1.5, SB raises to $5, 1 fold, Button calls $3.50.

Flop: ($10.50) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($10.50) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets $4.9 (All-In), Button folds.

Final Pot: $15.40
06-20-2006, 09:28 PM
euphoricism

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($27.45)
MP ($52.05)
Button ($21.65)
SB ($29.60)
Hero ($61.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
2 folds, Button raises to $1.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $5.5, Button raises to $6.75, Hero calls $0.

Flop: ($12.50) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)

Turn: ($12.50) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)

River: ($12.50) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: $12.50
06-20-2006, 09:32 PM
jackvance

I think you can call because there is already another caller.. but I wouldn't call here personally.
06-20-2006, 09:41 PM
Warpe

Make it 15x.
06-20-2006, 09:43 PM
euphoricism

Make what 15x, my calling requirements?
06-20-2006, 09:45 PM
Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Make what 15x, my calling requirements?

Yes. 10x rule sux. 15x is better.
06-20-2006, 09:53 PM
swiggidy

You don't have 10x in the first hand. There is $8 in the pot and each opponent only has $20 behind.

28 < 10 x 3.5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Yes. 10x rule sux. 15x is better.

Are you saying it's easier to get 2/3 of 15x compared to all of 10x, or the fact that sometimes making a little more compensates for when PFR doesn't play post-flop
06-20-2006, 09:56 PM
Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Yes. 10x rule sux. 15x is better.

Are you saying it's easier to get 2/3 of 15x compared to all of 10x, or the fact that sometimes making a little more compensates for when PFR doesn't play post-flop

In essence. Lukie did a good thread on this.
06-20-2006, 10:02 PM
Cocco_Bill

fold, stacks too shallow
06-20-2006, 10:04 PM
Cocco_Bill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Make it 15x.

It's so situational and opponent dependant. Following rules like this is so noobish.
06-20-2006, 10:06 PM
Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Make it 15x.

It's so situational and opponent dependant. Following rules like this is so noobish.

Agree, but euph is a noob to NL :lol:
06-20-2006, 10:08 PM
Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill

fold, stacks too shallow

measured how?
06-20-2006, 10:11 PM
swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

In essence. Lukie did a good thread on this.

For those following along at home, here's the thread.
06-20-2006, 10:16 PM
Cocco_Bill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill

fold, stacks too shallow

measured how?

you know how. If stacks were deep we could start taking other things into consideration. Its very rare that cold calling 8BB raises with low pocket pairs is correct against thinking opponents regardless of stack sizes. With these stack sizes its a no brainer.
06-20-2006, 10:17 PM
Warpe

Nice detective work. I couldn't find it. There are others, too.

Lukie! Wade in here...
06-20-2006, 10:38 PM
euphoricism

Meh this seems incredibly difficult to do in practice, particularly with two people in the pot.

Further, at UB almost no one has a full stack. Maybe one person other than myself. So the implied odds for essentially any hand aren't there. Villains stacks are usually in the 5-10x range of their bets. Maybe this is why I'm breaking even rather than winning.

What adjustments need to be made?
06-21-2006, 02:01 AM
aislephive

You didn't have close to the odds on either hand to chase a set.
06-21-2006, 02:18 AM
boost

Quote:

Originally Posted by aislephive

You didn't have close to the odds on either hand to chase a set.

you never have odds to chase a set, or atlesat VERY VERY VERY rarely. The reason you can call is due to implied odds. And what is this stupid 10x and 15x rule? Youre gonna hit your set 1 in 8, right? A lot of the time when someone raies pf and you have any skills you can get them to stack off to you. So lets say 1 in 10 times at these limits the players iwll give you thier stack when yo uset. So those are the odds you need, 1 in 10. Its all relative though, and therefore 1 in 10 is not a rule of thumb.
06-21-2006, 03:11 AM
aislephive

Quote:

Originally Posted by boostNslide

Quote:

Originally Posted by aislephive

You didn't have close to the odds on either hand to chase a set.

you never have odds to chase a set, or atlesat VERY VERY VERY rarely. The reason you can call is due to implied odds. And what is this stupid 10x and 15x rule? Youre gonna hit your set 1 in 8, right? A lot of the time when someone raies pf and you have any skills you can get them to stack off to you. So lets say 1 in 10 times at these limits the players iwll give you thier stack when yo uset. So those are the odds you need, 1 in 10. Its all relative though, and therefore 1 in 10 is not a rule of thumb.

Durrrrrrr .. no comment.
06-21-2006, 03:48 AM
boost

ais, I wasnt so much talking to you.. wanst sure if you were implying the "implied" in implied odds, heh. But it seems like a lot of people dont quite understand implied odds in this thread.
06-21-2006, 06:26 AM
Robert

Mostly you wont stack your opponent when you hit your set, especially if you are up against a thinking player. Thats why the 10x rule sux. Hell, sometimes its even -EV to call a 4xBB raise with a small PP OOP.