QQ, no read...yuck

I was new to the table and had no history with MP1. I think I shoulda bet more or checked the turn, and fold the river if I had checked or make a crying call if I had bet more. What would you do?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP2 ($129.40)
Hero ($50)
Button ($56.75)
SB ($20.40)
BB ($82.85)
UTG ($74.90)
UTG+1 ($90.46)
MP1 ($53.81)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3, Button calls $3, 2 folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $2.50.

Flop: ($10.25) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (3 players)
MP1 bets $0.5, Hero raises to $8, Button folds, MP1 calls $7.50.

Turn: ($26.25) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $15, MP1 calls $15.

River: ($56.25) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP1 calls $27.81 (All-In), Hero calls $24 (All-In).

Final Pot: $108.06

Tough river. I think I find a fold here. The turn bet is fine, imo.

At some point during this hand you should've asked yourselft what could villian have?... it probably would've save your stack.

you have no read but thats no excuse, his betting pattern is very telling... and if he has a flush then he's a total donk. I put him solidly on two hands 66/22.... maybe 55. your betting should've stopped on the flop...

oh and the river call :arrow: :sick: but i've been there

I think I fold the river because OPP has a flush/boat/trips/beats your overpair. A minbet/call potsized bet means trips or a donk flush draw. Check call on turn reinforces the flush draw, and open push on the river seals the deal. Shitty river, but you have to fold.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thnwkd

At some point during this hand you should've asked yourselft what could villian have?

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I actually did... way behind on the turn to 22/66/AdKd/KdQd, or moderately to way ahead of a worse pair or other XdYd. If the turn was 3h instead, betting seems much better than with the Kh.

So, check behind the turn since most 50nl players have me beat by then, and if not I'm not risking very much?

Or risk a free card if he is a not-too-uncommon fish on a flush draw?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thnwkd

oh and the river call...

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haha, the river call was too desperate. I only beat a bluff, but it was the old leak of "I have to see."

freechus..just noticed your post. Do you like a turn bet more then check behind? If so, what size?

I think your turn bet is fine IMO, but just be wary of opp getting aggressive. As soon as villain plays back, I'm out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by benny999

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thnwkd

At some point during this hand you should've asked yourselft what could villian have?

---

I actually did... way behind on the turn to 22/66/AdKd/KdQd, or moderately to way ahead of a worse pair or other XdYd. If the turn was 3h instead, betting seems much better than with the Kh.

So, check behind the turn since most 50nl players have me beat by then, and if not I'm not risking very much?

Or risk a free card if he is a not-too-uncommon fish on a flush draw?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thnwkd

oh and the river call...

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haha, the river call was too desperate. I only beat a bluff, but it was the old leak of "I have to see."

freechus..just noticed your post. Do you like a turn bet more then check behind? If so, what size?

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exactly... you chk the turn, on the river you call villians value bet and see what he has on the cheap, of course you fold to a push. so instead of losing 50.00 you lose like 11.00-20.00.

The turn bet is a donation 90% of the time imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by freechus9

I think your turn bet is fine IMO, but just be wary of opp getting aggressive. As soon as villain plays back, I'm out.

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:hmm: besides building the pot i don't see what the turn bet accomplishes, personally i don't put another dime in this pot voluntarily.

When I see an opponent min bet and then call a "big" raise [the bet I would have made anyways] I always take note of that and know how to handle those bets in the future. Sometimes an opponent will donk bet like this with a made hand or a draw, more often than that it is absolutely nothing, but either way its very important to know what they do. With a check/call I definitely slow down on the turn, and call a river bet [within reason].

thnwkd, I see what you're saying that checking behind usually is better, especially since the K tends to scare off hands like 77-JJ. I think that will be my "standard" line now if this hand happens again and I don't yet have a call station read.

My reason for the turn bet was for value/protection from that minority of call stations (seemed kinda likely given his line so far), but also sort of looking for how he responds (figuring a K or big hand would want to raise, a FD would quickly call). Unfortunately I didn't use the info on the river:

palemerk57 shows [ Td, 3d ] :shock: a flush, ten high.

He left quick after this hand :twisted:...hope to see him next time, or if any of you want another buddy...