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I use PAHUD, but only use the standard stats (VPIP, PFR, agg factor and numer of hands). I know I could (and therefore should) use more stats, and I'm just wondering which ones you guys use and how you use them in your play, in general. Any suggestions would be great.
I play 100NL 5-max atm if that matters.
im in the same position as you, and would love to hear these answers.
one thing i saw in Renton's setup for party he posted the other day that i am going to use is the agg. factor for all streets. This seems like it would be very helpful, as after the flop, i have to guess as to whether the guy is just c-betting or he actually hit.
i use my brain but that's just me.
Rentons one is pretty good,
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-37745.htm
Anyone know if it's possible to get a pf reraise stat?
its notQuote:
Originally Posted by Irisheyes
yea. its much better to get in the habit of noticing specific tendencies than relying on numbers for a decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
from a recent thread on 2p2 by iRockHoes:
I don't get bogged down in reading my opponent's V$IP numbers and make a call. I think a call based on stats is fairly superficial for the reason that the player making the bet is not thinking "ok i'm playing 24/18...time to tone it down." They are thinking about this hand and maybe one or two you have been in in the past. Thats it. When you confuse yourself with 14 pop up boxes of stats, I think you hinder yourself.
I think not playing by stats also helps your profitability because it allows you to develop a feeling for the game that can't be crunched in numbers. A few days ago Taylor [Green Plastic] made a post about gut feelings. I think it is best to free yourself from the endless databases of pokertracker, and instead hone your instincts as a player, as it is a skill that can't be taught through spreadsheets. "
Since I just recently got PT and PAHUD, and did fine without them, I agree with that. However, since putting them into play they have certainly helped me win some more hands with some close calls I might not have made without the information. The more information, the better IMO. Just don't use it as the sole basis for your decisions.
PT is great and all but looking at my winrate shrink makes me cry. Ignorance is bliss.
I use PAhud and I think it's a great tool for beating the medium stake games. At the higher stakes numbers become less important when you see the same players every day and rely more on recalling how they play certain hands than you do their VPIP/PFR numbers. It's great to know how loose certain players are, how often they raise preflop, how often they fold to a c-bet, how aggressive/passive they are, etc. If I get raised by a guy with a .5 AF in a multiway pot generally top pair goes into the muck pretty quickly. There are a lot of instances like that where I'll make a decision due to the numbers. If a guy with 15/5 stats reraises me PF my AQs is getting folded very quickly.
You can look at the video I posted to get my PAhud layout, its pretty solid.
still no one has posted any specific stats that would be helpful for the lower limits.
Im thinking c-bet, VP$IP post flop, ?, ?, ?
and what happens when you guys who use PT and HUD play in live games? what do you do then?
i'de rather develop my own database in my head by seeing hands and hands and hands and mentally learning which situations i should most likely call/fold/check/raise/etcetera
Omg ..Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
Go busto within 3 orbits obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
Live game=live reads. Online game=online reads, of which there are few. PT/PAHUD helps fill in the blanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
playing online using just my gut and instinct has made me a much better live player. i went from break-even live poker to consistently winning money each time i played.
johnnybuz, i agree. people need to stop playing like robots if they want to develop as players and make the real money.
You still use your instinct, it's not like the Hud tells you to call or fold, it just tells you how loose/tight, passive/aggressive certain players are and you make the nessecary adjustments. Playing one or two tables it is less important, but when you play 4+ tables and you can't get specific reads on every player it gives you a general guideline of the player you're up against. Knowledge is power, I don't see how the Hud could be anything but good.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
It's a good tool and I use it - but I just use the defaults. If you are playing an aggressive game on multiple tables, a quick glance at another players stats can help you make some quick decisions. I also use it to check my own image at a table. It doesn't mean you turn your brain off.
I've gone long periods with and without a HUD. If you are really trying to hone your reading skills, then skip it and play less tables. If you want to play many tables (ei. building bankroll), use it. You will have very few reads so any help you can get can't hurt. There's no way I can see it as a hindrance.
How can you 9 table 600NL 6max like a human being!?Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
AHEM 12 table 5/10
i just made an entry in my blog about it.... each regular is on half of my tables anyway..
I use the fold to flop bet number to see how likely it is that they'll fold to a c-bet
does using stats mean you can't use your brain also?Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
thanks for the replies, interesting discussion.
i see this type of thing thrown around alot on here, and its always funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by r8ed
I know everyone here wants to get better at poker, but isnt the underlying goal to make as much money as is humanly possible.
Thoughts?
maybe taking time to learn poker better will lead to making more money down the line.
like, i think i would play really TAG and beat the 5/10nl game, but im trying to develop a style thats tought to play against (which might sacrifice some winrate) so i will bebetter prepared to beat 50/100
I have to say, I have no interest in games which require PAHUD stats to beat at a good rate. I mean, at some point it just becomes WORK.
I do not play poker to make as much money as humanly possible. I have a job, while not as glamorous or condusive to sitting around in my shorts, is at least stable. I also have a familiy and a mortgage.
This is why I prefer tournaments to ring, when we all know the money is in ring games. Tournies are just more fun. Of course, I play to win, too - and the money keeps me from acting like I'm playing for lemon drops like in high school (that was before Al Gore invented the so called "interweb")
My wife likes to say "a good job is one that doesn't drive you insane". So if you are playing poker to pay the rent - you should consider that it's better in the long run that poker doesn't drive you insane. This is not directed towards anyone in particular.
i play poker to have fun and get better at it right now. winning money is the secondary goal. it should coincide with the primary goal of getting better though. if i'm getting better, i should be making money.
i thought about getting PT but havn't gotten around to it yet. and while i havn't consistently made money, i know i've become a better player and i'm fine with that for now.
i'm probably not going to play any online poker until the end of the summer when i go back to school. just gonna read some books and not worry about actually playing yet. enjoy the summer :) i have other jobs i don't need the money now. but when i do go back to school, i'm going to deposit probably 15 buy-ins worth for 25NL. something i've never done before, i usually only deposit $50. if at that point, i somehow lose those 15 buy-ins, i'll know i wasn't destined to make money at online poker. but i have a feeling this is gonna be the time i finally turn the corner and start making some progress and winnings.