How do you adjust to higher aggression?

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07-02-2006, 04:18 PM
Tom42

How do you adjust to higher aggression?

I'm trying to move up to 50NL 6-max, but i'm having touble adjusting. Every time I try, I end Up being down a couple of buyins. Some of it is due to bad beats or just a cold deck overall, but I'm sure I could of played a lot of hands better.

The level of play isn't better I think, it's just very different then what I'm used at 25NL everst poker, 25NL is mostly populated with loose passive, or tight passive players. At 50NL you have a few more solid aggressive players, but overall there are far more aggressive, maniac-type of players.

My old strategy that relies on a good preflop game, aggressive c-betting and valuebetting, doesn't seem to work. When passive players play back at you know they generally have a decent hand.

But the maniacs at 50NL bet every hand like it's the stone cold nuts. They always float you c-bets and and try to steal when you show weakness, bluffing every scare-card. And because they only use the bet pot button, every hand that is raised preflop is played for stacks. I can't read them.

I'm going to post all hands where I get involve from my last session that ended up in a buyin loss yet again. I realise there are a few bad beats, but perhaps I could have played these hands better also. Any pointers as to how to adjust my game are welcome.

Hand7.

Villain 1 is in the button with $26.76.
I have $49.68 in the SB

Cards : AsQs .

Preflop : call, villain 1 calls, I complete, BB checks.

Flop ( Jd Ts 7s) : I check, BB bets $1.00, call, Villain 1 calls, I raise to $ 7.00, fold, fold, villain 1 calls.

Turn (Jd 10s 7s 8c): I checks. Villain 1 bets $18.00. I fold.

Ok maybe I should raise preflop, but I am not really comfortable raising from the SB with AQs because they seem to be floating my C-bets more often then not. Maybe just call the flop, or lead? Notice villain 1 potting it on the turn, that wasn't the first time he did that when check to, and not the last.

Hand 17.

Villain 1 (same villain) with $41.84 in CO
Villain 2 with $49.07 on the Button.
Hero with $ 48.50 in SB

Cards : Td9d

Pre-flop: folds, villain1 calls $0.50, villain2 calls $0.50. Hero completes
BB checks.

Flop (2d Kd 6d): Hero checks. BB checks. Villain1 bets $2.00. Villain 2 calls $2.00. Hero calls $2.00. BB folds.

Turn (2d Kd 6d 3s): Hero raises to $4.50. Villain1 folds. Villain2 $4.50.

River (2d Kd 6d 3s 5d): Hero checks. Villain2 checks.

Hero shows 10d 9d.
Villain2 shows 2c 2h.

I win the pot $ 17.00 with a flush

Ok, I didn't play this very well, I thought about check-raising on the flop letting villain hang himself, but changed my mind and just called. I had to lead the turn. River check? If villain2 bets hard I have to fold so maybe a blocking bet? Playing OOP is difficult.

Hand 18.

I'm on the button with $ 57.82
Villain3 is in the BB with $ 35.49

Cards : Ah Td

Preflop : One limper, I raise to $ 2.25, Villain 3 calls, limper folds.

Flop (2d 10c Ac): Villain 3 checks. Hero raises to $3.50. Villain calls $3.50.

Turn (2d 10c Ac Qs): Villain checks. I raise $8.00. Villain raise to $29.74 an is all-in. I call $21.74.

River (2d 10c Ac Qs As):

Villain 3 shows Js Qd.
Hero shows Ah 10d.
Hero wins pot ($71.73) with 10d 10c Ah Ac As: Full House

I thought about folding, but on this table, they can't have the nuts every time and calling a potsize flopbet with a gutshot isn't so likely, I thought. Against a loose passive player on 25NL I would probably let this go.

Hand 33.

Same villain1 as in the first two hands with $34.49 UTG.
Hero with $98.62 on the button.

Cards: Qs Ad

Pre-flop: Villain1 bets $1.75. folds. Hero calls $1.75. SB folds.
BB calls $1.25.

Flop (Ah 10c 4d): BB checks. Villain1 raises $5.50. Hero calls $5.50.
BB folds.

Turn (Ah 10c 4d 7d): Villain1 raises with $16.50. Hero folds.

I don't know, I had been stacked an hour ago in the exact same situation on another maniac table where villain had AK. Villain keeps betting the pot, doesn't mean all that much, by now they probably have a read on me that I will fold to some serious agression if I don't have a monster. Seems wrong to play a big pot with TPGK, but I could very well have folded the best hand.

Hand 37.

Villain1 with $44.73 in BB. Again same loose maniac villain desperatly wanting to get his stack in the middle.
Hero with $91.37 in MP post blind. I had just sat out.

Cards : 8d Qc

Pre-flop: Folds,Hero checks, calls, folds, folds villain1 checks.

Flop (10c Qs 4c): Villain1 raises $0.50. Hero calls $0.50. Folds

Turn (10c Qs 4c Kc): Villain1 raises $2.75. Hero calls $2.75.

River (10c Qs 4c Kc 8c): Villain1 raises $22.00. Hero calls $22.00.

Villain 1 shows Ac 9d and wins pot ($52.25) with 4c 8c 10c Kc Ac: Flush

Again trying to keep the pot small with TPWK, villain1 is in every pot now, he can't have the nuts every time I decided to call him down. Should I prehaps reraise on the flop? I pick up Q-high flush draw with the king on the board, Villain keep betting the pot, I believe he is full of it and I call. Probably should've folded to his huge overbet on the river, I don't know.

Hand 38.

Next hand different villain, no specific read but he seems to fit in the whole loose maniac ambiance.

Hero is UTG with $ 65.62.
Villain4 is on the Button with $ 54.08.

Cards : Kh Kd

Pre-flop: Hero raises to $1.75. folds, folds, Villain4 calls $1.75. Villain1 in SB calls $1.50 again. BB folds.

Flop (Qs 5s 7h):
SB/villain1 checks. Hero raises to $4.00. Villain4 raises to $8.00. SB/villain folds. Hero calls $4.00.

Turn (Qs 5s 7h 8h): Hero checks. Villain4 raises $21.75. Hero raises $55.87 and is all-in. Villain4 calls $22.58.

River (Qs 5s 7h 8h Jd):

Villain4 shows Js Qh and wins the pot ($110.41)

He min-raises me on the flop and bets the pot of half a buy-in on the turn when I checked it to him. I'm baffled by the blind aggression here, normally I can lay down an overpair. But I can't let them push me arround all the time so I decided I had the best of it and pushed. Obviously a bad beat, but again what do I do when they decide to play for stacks all the time, I have no reads on their hands whatsoever.

Hand 39.

Villain 5 is UTG + 1 with $29.58. New villain no reads, but shortstacked so he doesn't get much credit.
Villain 1 on the button with $67.39.
Hero in BB with $11.54. Wasn't fast enough to rebuy.

Cards : Qc Jh

Pre-flop: folds, villain5 $3.00, folds, villain1 calls $3.00. Hero calls $2.50.

Flop (Jd 5s 7c): Hero raises $8.54 and is all-in. villain 5 calls $8.54. Villain 1 calls $8.54.

Turn (Jd 5s 7c 4s): Villain 5 bets $0.50. Villain 1 calls $0.50.

River (Jd 5s 7c 4s Ad): villain 5 checks villain 1 bets $16.75. Villain 5 folds.

Villain 1 shows 7h Ah and wins pot ($34.87)

Preflop call was bad, the bad beat probably tilted me. Flop, I donk bet all-in with TPGK for about the pot, both call :-). Notice villain1 calling with middle pair after all-in by me and a call from preflop-raizor.

Well that was that, back to 25NL to grind back to 22 buy-ins. But this seems to a patern, every time I move up I lose some buy-ins due to some bad plays and/or some bad beats. The problem seems to be that I can't get a read on the maniac's plays. Any tips to improve my game are welcome or should I stay at 25NL?
07-02-2006, 05:08 PM
NLHE lahooozaher

How about trying a site that doesn't have a bet pot button? I hear Party is a decent place.

Hand 7: Most here would say raise pf. Having not done that bet the flop, 3 bet AI.

Hand 17: Bet the flop, bet the turn.

Hand 18: I bet $4 on the flop, pot is ~$12 on the turn, bet $10, easy call of the c/r

Hand 33: I'm calling him down because as you said "he may have a read on you" and folding the turn last time OOP with your AQs. I'm def. not raising though cuz you're usually only getting called by better hands.

Hand 37: raise the flop, I don't see how you can call the river. Pot is only $8 and he bets nearly 3x pot. There are times I will be tilted enough by villain to call this but this call is -ev. Don't try to keep the pot small, raise the flop, check the turn, depending on river card check or bet this is pretty typical IMO when having position and a hand that isn't strong and wants to see a showdown.

Hand 38: I reraise such a draw heavy board on the flop.

Hand 39: Fold preflop. Since you didnt your play was fine. You can't expect people to bet here after your check because of your short stack and your AI is a PSB.

Quote:

Any tips to improve my game are welcome or should I stay at 25NL?

Don't play scared or thinking that you're going to lose. You can't stay at the $25 forever.
07-02-2006, 05:34 PM
Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLHE lahooozaher

How about trying a site that doesn't have a bet pot button? I hear Party is a decent place.

Hand 7: Most here would say raise pf. Having not done that bet the flop, 3 bet AI.

Hand 17: Bet the flop, bet the turn.

Hand 18: I bet $4 on the flop, pot is ~$12 on the turn, bet $10, easy call of the c/r

Hand 33: I'm calling him down because as you said "he may have a read on you" and folding the turn last time OOP with your AQs. I'm def. not raising though cuz you're usually only getting called by better hands.

Hand 37: raise the flop, I don't see how you can call the river. Pot is only $8 and he bets nearly 3x pot. There are times I will be tilted enough by villain to call this but this call is -ev. Don't try to keep the pot small, raise the flop, check the turn, depending on river card check or bet this is pretty typical IMO when having position and a hand that isn't strong and wants to see a showdown.

Hand 38: I reraise such a draw heavy board on the flop.

Hand 39: Fold preflop. Since you didnt your play was fine. You can't expect people to bet here after your check because of your short stack and your AI is a PSB.

Quote:

Any tips to improve my game are welcome or should I stay at 25NL?

Don't play scared or thinking that you're going to lose. You can't stay at the $25 forever.

everest is incredibly fishy
07-02-2006, 06:42 PM
NLHE lahooozaher

I don't even know what "everest" is :? .
07-02-2006, 07:13 PM
Tom42

Great advice,

Quote:

Hand 7: Most here would say raise pf. Having not done that bet the flop, 3 bet AI.

Agreed. What if nobody reraises me and the turn bricks. Check, Lead?

Quote:

Hand 18: I bet $4 on the flop, pot is ~$12 on the turn, bet $10, easy call of the c/r

Any specific reason why you bet these amounts? I usually bet about 2/3 to 3/4 pot depending on number of villains and flop.

Quote:

Hand 33: I'm calling him down because as you said "he may have a read on you" and folding the turn last time OOP with your AQs. I'm def. not raising though cuz you're usually only getting called by better hands.

Well, villain1 is a maniac postflop but they generally don't raise all that much preflop, so... I still don't know. I have trouble playing AQ with a raise in front of me really, reraising preflop isn't good I think because they don't raise much preflop, folding seems weak and if you call you don't know where you stand when you hit.

I agree with the rest, pretty standard I guess... which leads to :

Quote:

Don't play scared or thinking that you're going to lose.

That about sums it up. I know most of this, I just can't bring myself to play accordingly at times.

Quote:

Everest is incredibly fishy

Yeah, definitely, it's good for my bankroll, but bad for my play. I have only played there and I feel I haven't improved much althought I built my bankroll up to $1000 from nothing.
07-02-2006, 07:31 PM
NLHE lahooozaher

Even though a 9 makes a straight I lead here 100% of the time.

I usually bet $1/$2 less than the pot on the flop/turn. Pot $5 on flop I bet $4, A HU pot will be $12 and change after the rake on the turn so I bet $10. Dunno how I came up with those originally but it's how I play. In reraised pots I often overbet(see: push) very good hands though or bet just less than pot on flop and overbet/push the turn.
07-02-2006, 10:00 PM
aislephive

Hand 7: Raise preflop. I'd rather lead the flop than to c/r, but c/r is ok. As played I don't like the check fold, I would lead out again here for about 2/3 pot.

Hand 17: I would c/r the flop, not c/c. If you're going to c/c the flop I would go for a turn c/r, but leading is okay here. As played yes either c/c or c/f river. Betting sucks.

Hand 18: No way am I folding here, especially given stack sizes.

Hand 33: Depends on your read of the player, in a multiway pot I think this is pretty standard. Flop raise is kind of blah because only AJ really calls that we beat. I'd call the flop and fold to another big bet if I thought villain was a TAG. Multiway pots tend to keep people honest too. Even if you occasionally fold the best hand, it's better than to get it all in drawing to three outs.

Hand 37: Wait for the blind to come, as played raise the flop, there are many draws out. The turn is ok too I guess, but the river is a fold against most players, this is almost always the nut flush more than it is some random bluff. Some players this is an easy call, but most this is a fold.

Hand 38: Standard, I like the way you played it personally. Call the flop raise and c/r ai on a safe turn, you executed it well but got sucked out on, that's poker.

Hand 39: Fold preflop, especially since it's multiway. QJo doesn't play great in that spot. As played you have top pair, might as well push with your stack. Another bad beat, happens.

A couple months ago when I played 25nl/50nl I actually transitioned very well and didn't look back. Play good solid aggressive poker and you will win, it's really that simple. Don't let the short term affect you, losing a couple of buyins is no big deal.
07-03-2006, 04:55 AM
natdang

yeah, step down for short periods if you need to gain confidence, but I didnt find too much of a transition from $25NL to $50NL, though it is a bigger jump than to $100NL, which is pretty damn fishy if you ask me. But aisle is right, solid, and aggressive poker is the way to go. For example, I'd never limp AQs is a 5/6max game, SB or not. In fact, at places like stars, where I find the players to be weak/tight, if somebody open-raises, I might bump it up to 12-15x pf (depending on the player of course) and hope for a laydown (happens often). But play your good holdings... that's about it. I didn't find the players to be overly sophisticated at 50NL, it's very possible that they have the goods, and aren't putting some plays on you.
07-04-2006, 04:01 AM
stuck

I could comment on the individual hands, but a lot was already said. I guess the best thing that could be said is that instead of letting them force you to make a difficult decision, you need to be putting them to difficult decisions as well (but you also need to know when to let it go). It is possible to develop reads on this type of player, but you do need to be careful, as [occasionally] they will be false-reads. Or, at least, I do this to thinking players at my tables.

Also: if someone raises PF, don't be afraid to pop it over top of them occasionally. They'll usually get scared if they don't hit the flop hard and run scampering with their leg between their tail. The same holds for min-reraises (or just weak re-raises) preflop: If you raise to 4xBB, someone raises to 7xBB, don't be afraid to pop it to 20xBB or so every once and awhile

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($19.66)
Button ($59.80)
SB ($57)
BB ($77.71)
Hero ($110.61)
MP ($10.45)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero raises to $2, 3 folds, SB (poster) raises to $4.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $12, SB calls $7.

Flop: ($24.50) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, SB folds.

Final Pot: $39.50

Of course I don't do that every single time, but I'd say it's a +EV move in the long-term.

Just remember: raise PF to get a big pot going. Put your opponents to tough decisions. And if they keep going ballistic on you, don't be afraid to look them up with a reasonable holding.
07-04-2006, 08:08 AM
Tom42

Quote:

Originally Posted by aislephive

Hand 38: Standard, I like the way you played it personally. Call the flop raise and c/r ai on a safe turn, you executed it well but got sucked out on, that's poker.

I aslo like this line against aggressive players. Problem is when I check the turn, feinting weakness, I'm still surprised when they raise it strong. I don't really know if they are bluffing me thinking I was just C-betting, have a decent hand or have a really good hand. Also as NHLE lahoozaher points out the flop is draw-heavy, so we have a potentially very difficult decision if the turn completes any draws.

Quote:

A couple months ago when I played 25nl/50nl I actually transitioned very well and didn't look back. Play good solid aggressive poker and you will win, it's really that simple. Don't let the short term affect you, losing a couple of buyins is no big deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by natdang

yeah, step down for short periods if you need to gain confidence, but I didnt find too much of a transition from $25NL to $50NL, though it is a bigger jump than to $100NL, which is pretty damn fishy if you ask me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuck

I could comment on the individual hands, but a lot was already said. I guess the best thing that could be said is that instead of letting them force you to make a difficult decision, you need to be putting them to difficult decisions as well (but you also need to know when to let it go). It is possible to develop reads on this type of player, but you do need to be careful, as [occasionally] they will be false-reads

Generally, I think my post-flop skills are not up to par yet, mostly due to a lack of experience.

I moved very fast through 2NL, 10NL and 25NL in a couple of months time, never played poker before. Poor competition, a good preflop strategy and probably a long upswing bloated my bankroll before I really had the skill to move up. I was running at 17 ptBB/100 over 7K 25NL hands.

So when they put me to difficult decisions I still tend to make the wrong decisions a bit to often. I think I'll stay at 25NL for a while now before I move up again, enjoying the play and working on my game. I'll difinately move to another site though.

Thanks for the great advice, I'll be looking into this forum more often.