A weird line with the nuts.

Villian in this hand is pretty nitty 15/7, but seems to be a thinking player. He has seen me c/f flops after raising preflop. I would never c/r this flop with a good hand, right? Thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($100)
Hero ($550.50)
MP ($400)
CO ($383)
Button ($457)
SB ($931)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
Hero raises to $16, MP calls $16, 4 folds.

Flop: ($38) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $20, Hero raises to $64, MP calls $44.

Turn: ($166) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks.

River: ($166) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $116

Why in gods name would you check the turn? What are you repping AK? Most of the time opp is going to interpet this as strength so just bet out the turn. If I'm MP I'm folding a lot of hands on the river that you could've value bet on the turn and river combined.

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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Why in gods name would you check the turn? What are you repping AK? Most of the time opp is going to interpet this as strength so just bet out the turn. If I'm MP I'm folding a lot of hands on the river that you could've value bet on the turn and river combined.

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I think the check on the turn is good because it gets a call out of 88 sometimes.

BDawg, that girl in your avatar is disgusting.

i like, but its interestingly played oop

Seems good except for the turn check.

i dont like the flop check raise...people hardly ever do that with AK. maybe check call flop and lead turn

I don't like the flop c/r or turn check.

If it's possible he floats at all then I just bet the flop. This is a decent flop to float on a guy. Actually most of the time I just bet the flop either way.

His most likely hand is a mid pp or AQ and I don't think they hold up to the flop c/r.

Mostly I just 3 barrel the thing or c/c flop, lead turn

if yu overpot the river could he put you on a whiffed ak?

I think that after you've checked the flop, it's best to play under the assumption that opponent has a 3 or slow-played K-K or A-A preflop and try to get as much money in the middle as possible, since no other hands will play a big pot anyways. That said, I think check-raising the flop is slightly better than check-calling.

About the flop check, against a calling station I would simply lead out, but against aggressive players, I prefer to check. I want them to think that I'm capable of checking monsters to them so that I can get free cards and read their hands better when I'm out of position.

Okay, here is what my thinking was. First off, in my general experience with the stars 400 game, I have found that it is very commonplace for players to be willing to call down 2 barrels, much moreso than 3. (Obviously this probably means I don't have the necessary image to be able to get away with 3 barrels with the nuts everytime.) So this means either bet flop, check turn, bet river, or check flop, bet turn, bet river.

On the flop, I think villian's most likely hand by far is a middle pocket pair, anything up to TT, so I ask myself, how can I play the biggest possible pot against this type of hand, assuming they don't fill up? I decided to c/r the flop for a couple reasons: 1) b/c who the hell c/r's a good hand on such a dry flop?, 2) I think in a lot of situations against a thinking player a c/r can actually show more weakness than betting out or c/c, this I thought being one of those situations. Okay, he called me. Now I'm almost positive he has a mid PP, so what to do on the turn? If I bet the turn for 120, I think it is very likely he just folds his PP, because of the enormous implied threat on his stack, so I decided to check and value-bet the river. How often is c/r followed by a check a big hand? In my experience, not often. On the river, he is closing the action so I think there's a decent chance he makes a heroic call with a mid PP.

Results: He pretty much insta-called with 99. :shipit:

In my opinion it's generally not optimal to try to maximize against weak hands when you have a monster. It's better to assume your opponent is reasonably strong and hope to build a big pot.

Situations like these where the deck is virtually crippled might be an exception, though.

Whenever people expect me to make a bet whether I have air or not, when I don't have air I always bet.

I think you need to bet the turn if you are c/ring the flop. You need the river to be an AI-PSB.

Consireding you c/red the flop, a turn bet hardly ever gets called by a mid pp. Hence I don't lie the c/r.

If opp was smart, he'd realize that if you really wanted to bluff, you probably would do it on the turn. Hence, the turn check can only rep strength. Unless you have some sort of great read on opp like he thinks this line is a bluff, I don't like it.

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I think you need to bet the turn if you are c/ring the flop. You need the river to be an AI-PSB.

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Totally disagree. Unless opp has a strong strong read we're on whiffed overs here opp doesnt want to play a big pot therefore hes highly unlikely to bet the turn behind or call a turn for that matter but will call a river with a wide range that has showdown value on this board.
Thats why imo the c/r flop bluff is so effective IF you follow it up with aggression on the turn becasue you put semi-good thinking players to the test with hands that have showdown value but dont really want to play big pots/for stacks with the implied threat of two streets worth of betting.
Im more interested in what happens if we overpot the river, will opp see it as an AK bluff or a big hand.

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You need the river to be an AI-PSB.

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This simply isnt going to happen unless opp has a strong queen and is a little married to it or has a 3, and were probably only against a 33 quads type hand in that respect most often.
Considering opps range here (from knowledge of the site) this hand is about the best way to make our opponent overcall with a good but not strong hand rather than trying to get him to play for stacks when he blatently wont unless he misreads us.
by taking a non-typical line with our hand we sorta send out conflicting information to our opponent who should by the river think 'wtf is going on here?'
I like the line as variation i just think theres a bigger bet that could be called on the river, even all in possibly