Vilian puts a bullet to Heros brain... 3 times...

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08-11-2006, 06:20 PM
Stripclubjunkie

Vilian puts a bullet to Heros brain... 3 times...

Hand 1:

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $133.20
UTG+1: $162
MP1: $124.95
MP2: $119.32
MP3: $89
CO: $160.09
Button: $100
SB: $34.30
Hero: $98.80

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with Q:spade: Q:club:
UTG raises to $2.5, UTG+1 calls, 6 folds, Hero raises to $6, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: 8:heart: T:diamond: 4:diamond: ($18.5, 3 players)
Hero bets $11, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: 5:diamond: ($40.5, 2 players)
Hero bets $22, UTG+1 raises to $44, Hero calls.

River: J:spade: ($128.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $22, Hero raises all-in $37.8, UTG+1 calls.

Results:
Final pot: $204.1

Hand 2:

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $93.10
UTG+1: $101.55
MP1: $140.56
MP2: $47.65
MP3: $67.66
CO: $100
Hero: $99
SB: $108.85
BB: $123.20

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with K:spade: A:diamond:
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Hero raises to $6, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, 3 folds.

Flop: A:heart: T:spade: 2:diamond: ($21.5, 3 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $13, BB folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: 8:diamond: ($47.5, 2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $15.22, MP1 raises to $30.44, Hero calls.

River: 2:spade: ($108.38, 2 players)
MP1 bets $38, Hero raises all-in $49.56, MP1 calls.

Results:
Final pot: $207.5

Hand 3

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $67.50
UTG+1: $27.82
Hero: $96.50
MP1: $96.90
MP2: $48.15
MP3: $123.85
CO: $74.44
Button: $47.50
SB: $100.50
BB: $125.10

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is UTG+2 with K:heart: K:club:
2 folds, Hero raises to $7.15, MP1 calls, 6 folds.

Flop: 7:club: J:spade: 2:diamond: ($15.8, 2 players)
Hero bets $13.85, MP1 raises to $27.7, Hero calls.

Turn: 5:club: ($71.2, 2 players)
Hero bets $15, MP1 raises all-in $62.05, Hero calls all-in $46.65.
Uncalled bets: $0.4 returned to MP1.

River: T:club: ($194.5, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $194.5)

Results:
Final pot: $194.5
08-11-2006, 06:22 PM
Fnord

Just move up from $25NL? These lines don't do well in most 100NL and 200NL games.
08-11-2006, 06:30 PM
Stripclubjunkie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Just move up from $25NL? These lines don't do well in most 100NL and 200NL games.

Is it that horrible...?
08-11-2006, 06:37 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Just move up from $25NL? These lines don't do well in most 100NL and 200NL games.

Is it that horrible...?

You're expecting typical opponents to raise and stack off with weaker hands than they tend to raise and stack off with.
08-11-2006, 06:41 PM
Fnord

Hand 1: Hammer it harder pre-flop, you're out of position and against unknowns, two great reasons to leave less money behind. As played I check the turn (fold, raise or call from there.)
Hand 2: Bet flop harder, check turn, call the inevitable river bet.
Hand 3: Open for less money, makes it easier to get away from your hand. As played, I would stack-off here too.
08-11-2006, 06:42 PM
Stripclubjunkie

Hand 1: I cant fold to the turn minraise?

Ups hand 3 was a suckout... Strike it...
08-11-2006, 06:43 PM
KingLizard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Just move up from $25NL? These lines don't do well in most 100NL and 200NL games.

Is it that horrible...?

You're expecting typical opponents to raise and stack off with weaker hands than they tend to raise and stack off with.

I applied this thought to my first move from 25NL to 50NL. Too bad I didn't see the comment sooner.
08-11-2006, 06:46 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie

Hand 1: I cant fold to the turn minraise?

Sometimes. You've made 2 weak stabs at the pot and allowed yourself to get possibly pushed off a winning hand. I only bet this turn when I know I can fold to a raise and I bet it a little harder for immediate value.
08-11-2006, 06:46 PM
Stripclubjunkie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Hand 1: Hammer it harder pre-flop, you're out of position and against unknowns, two great reasons to leave less money behind. As played I check the turn (fold, raise or call from there.)

Isnt that weak?
08-11-2006, 06:48 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Hand 1: Hammer it harder pre-flop, you're out of position and against unknowns, two great reasons to leave less money behind. As played I check the turn (fold, raise or call from there.)

Isnt that weak?

Do you enjoy playing lukewarm hands out of position against unknown opponents with lots of money behind?

I don't.
08-11-2006, 06:51 PM
Stripclubjunkie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Hand 1: Hammer it harder pre-flop, you're out of position and against unknowns, two great reasons to leave less money behind. As played I check the turn (fold, raise or call from there.)

Isnt that weak?

Do you enjoy playing lukewarm hands out of position against unknown opponents with lots of money behind?

I don't.

Nah... I just meant that a check on the turn would be weak? Is better to just pot the flop?
08-11-2006, 06:55 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie

Nah... I just meant that a check on the turn would be weak?

I bet lots of flops and check (raise) lots of turns.

At this point if he doesn't have us smoked, he's probably got outs. Check and see what he wants to do about it. If you think he's full of it, then just check-bomb it all-in.
08-11-2006, 07:07 PM
Stripclubjunkie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie

Nah... I just meant that a check on the turn would be weak?

I bet lots of flops and check (raise) lots of turns.

At this point if he doesn't have us smoked, he's probably got outs. Check and see what he wants to do about it. If you think he's full of it, then just check-bomb it all-in.

If vilian has a flush will he bet out here? Nah... If he check behind do we see it as weakness? If we call a ½ pot bet on turn and then check the river, wouldnt vilian have to bet out big if he has a hand...?
08-11-2006, 08:24 PM
TerryToma

Looks like you and Fnord have been talking a lot about these hands.. Havent analyzed his responses yet, but here's my initial thoughts.

Hand 1) Why RR River? It looks like you are behind. UTG is repping at least a set, most likely a flush.

Hand 2) Again why rr AI an unimproved river when you were check-raised on the turn? I think this is a bad habit. Villain's line looks like a set rivered into a FH, possibly AT/A8.

Hand 3) Your PFR is wayy to high, I think that could be considered a tell of AA/KK. Possibly a sign of tilt? Dont donk into someone who RR'd you on flop. The only hand I see you beating is QQ.

How I might have played the hands:

1) PF/Flop looks fine. Check turn. Dont need to build a big pot if there is a good chance you are drawing dead.
2) 4$ PFR, no need to rr AI river.
3) 3-4$ PFR, 2/3rd pot flop, try and showdown cheap.
08-11-2006, 09:18 PM
Rondavu

Fnord is exactly right. The action in these hands goes way too deep too fast for the strength of hands you're showing down. You certainly want these kind of lines against hyper aggressive opponents, or ones that have lost respect for you. You have to consider the meta game, and it looks like something that's being completely ignored in this horrid display.

This is the kind of action lines our old friend rippy would produce from his image, and show down winners 2 out of 3 times strike bad variance.

Of course he would also stack off all his made value with a badly timed bluff in other spots.

Let's make a long story short and say it doesn't look like you've opened an action range with this opponent large enough (at this point) to justify your committment. What's happening is reverse implied odds are kicking you in the head continuosly.
08-11-2006, 09:27 PM
TerryToma

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie

Nah... I just meant that a check on the turn would be weak?

I bet lots of flops and check (raise) lots of turns.

At this point if he doesn't have us smoked, he's probably got outs. Check and see what he wants to do about it. If you think he's full of it, then just check-bomb it all-in.

I'll have to use this move. Looks like a good way to get AI with an overpair with actually the best hand.
08-11-2006, 09:37 PM
Miffed22001

Quote:

2) 4$ PFR

Please come play in my game raising 'just' 4bbs after a shit load of limpers. kthx.

1. I call here sometimes preflop. It really depends on what i put UTg on and how he will react to a reraise. This pot cant go 3way once UTG+1 calls the raise so i put a lot of money in preflop if i think my hand is the best otherwise its a call, i also want to kill what i assume is a set-farmer in UTG+1. If you make this 10-15 or something preflop then UTG+1 makes a mistake calling perhaps. Obv a discussion point.
Post-flop is yuk. The dangerous player in this pot called you flop bet and then player the turn like that, QQ no goot imo.

2. Ive called here before, ive also mucked, ive also raised. I dont know of a best play here but your pfr is fine imo.
But why bet the flop? What second best hands will call here? You also have position to allow a free card. Its not like we want to get all in on this hand is it? Its a 'reasonably' draw free flop and betting into a turn card or raising a turn bet will provide us with pot control and an idea of how our hand plays.
You got all in on a one pair hand on a dry board, so i dont think your good here that often vs a player who opened the pot for a limp.

3. lol. The flop miniraise. If this guy had raised you for real, id have check/bombed all in on the turn. However he didnt and that makes me feel more than a lot that a one pair hand is no good.
Again its a pretty dry board and unless opp is overplaying a one pair hand and is fishy then i think you cant be too good here either. If he is a fish then the typical check/bomb all in on turn line rules here for stacks.
08-11-2006, 09:54 PM
TerryToma

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

2. Ive called here before, ive also mucked, ive also raised. I dont know of a best play here but your pfr is fine imo.
But why bet the flop? What second best hands will call here? You also have position to allow a free card. Its not like we want to get all in on this hand is it? Its a 'reasonably' draw free flop and betting into a turn card or raising a turn bet will provide us with pot control and an idea of how our hand plays.
You got all in on a one pair hand on a dry board, so i dont think your good here that often vs a player who opened the pot for a limp.

3. lol. The flop miniraise. If this guy had raised you for real, id have check/bombed all in on the turn. However he didnt and that makes me feel more than a lot that a one pair hand is no good.
Again its a pretty dry board and unless opp is overplaying a one pair hand and is fishy then i think you cant be too good here either. If he is a fish then the typical check/bomb all in on turn line rules here for stacks.

2) Interesting idea checking TPTK on rainbow flop. My standard line is to bet (leak?).. are we trying to under represent our hand to induce a 2nd best hand to bet into us? Or possibly let a 4 to flush hit on turn so we can bet and get callers with a draw?

I guess checking would keep the pot small and lower the odds of having to play for stacks by the river...

3) So flop minraise could mean 2pr+ vs draw, check turn to see what he does for more info? What sort of moves on the turn would point toward a draw??

Thanks miffed & fnord. Im really trying to get better and you guys are def. stimulating me with some new possibilities.
08-11-2006, 10:44 PM
zook

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

2. Ive called here before, ive also mucked, ive also raised. I dont know of a best play here but your pfr is fine imo.
But why bet the flop? What second best hands will call here?

I always bet the flop here. I'm happy taking it down, and if you have aggressive table image, opps. might call with Ax or even KQ,QJ, or middle pair. I think checking behind this flop is really weak.

I do check behind the turn though.
08-12-2006, 08:46 AM
Miffed22001

Quote:

2) Interesting idea checking TPTK on rainbow flop. My standard line is to bet (leak?).. are we trying to under represent our hand to induce a 2nd best hand to bet into us? Or possibly let a 4 to flush hit on turn so we can bet and get callers with a draw?

I guess checking would keep the pot small and lower the odds of having to play for stacks by the river...

Unless were playing against a real fish who wants to felt any paired ace hand or some chasing fish, our hand has great showdown value and thus thats what we want to do, for an acceptable price. When we make bigger hands obv we want to get it all in if we can whilst stacking off with a one pair hand is opponent dependant.

I feel checking the flop or turn is a must and we have the oppertunity here to check the flop so that why i do it.
08-12-2006, 09:13 AM
Kits

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryToma

Thanks miffed & fnord. Im really trying to get better and you guys are def. stimulating me with some new possibilities.

+1
08-12-2006, 09:56 AM
Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kits

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryToma

Thanks miffed & fnord. Im really trying to get better and you guys are def. stimulating me with some new possibilities.

+1

lol thank fnord not me :)
08-12-2006, 10:09 AM
Stripclubjunkie

My head is spinning right now... You guys (miffed & fnord) stimulates my thinking...

So Miffed what your saying is that when the board is dry as the desert, you would check in position, b/c only hands that beat hero is going to call us. Since there is no draw(only straight draw). What about OOP? But what about AQ,AJ, wouldn't they call?

In hand 1: The board is not dry, therefore hands we are ahead of is likely to call us here? Bet pot on this flop? When the shit-card hits the turn do we check it? Call a smallish bet on the turn(b/c we want the ability to check the river, letting vilian come out the closet if he has the flush on the river, when we check it)?
08-12-2006, 12:47 PM
Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie

My head is spinning right now... You guys (miffed & fnord) stimulates my thinking...

So Miffed what your saying is that when the board is dry as the desert, you would check in position, b/c only hands that beat hero is going to call us. Since there is no draw(only straight draw). What about OOP? But what about AQ,AJ, wouldn't they call?

In hand 1: The board is not dry, therefore hands we are ahead of is likely to call us here? Bet pot on this flop? When the shit-card hits the turn do we check it? Call a smallish bet on the turn(b/c we want the ability to check the river, letting vilian come out the closet if he has the flush on the river, when we check it)?

generally yes.
On ATx the only had that will call wont always be a set or two pair, if AQ is behind you in the blinds then yeah you might get a call. But overall, noone but a fish is going to take a long look at this flop and think yeah, the 6bbs preflop raisor missed that. If someonewants to play a big pot here your probably f***ed because you will represent the obvious one pair hand and still get raised.
OOP is a similar story. Id probably check/call and lead saying that i have a hand i like im just going for pot control in the same sitaution if im oop. Then when someone raises the turn after we take our scary line we can probably dump knowing we are no good. (obviously against the correct opponent we can play differently)
In hand 1 as fnord noted your hand is very strong, but lukewarm oop. However its also very easy to get away from postflop. That being said, you probably have the best hand so you want to put a lot of money in preflop so that the flop is often unimportant, your either pushing because you arent folding a later street or check folding an awful flop. This is why uTG's raise is important, would he only have AA here or could it be AK/AQ/JJ/tt range.
Also, you have a caller in hand 1 and QQ doesnt play great multiway oop, another reason to get money in. This caller is most likely looking for a set (but could have sooted stuff or whateva too) so you need to isolate him from the pot or make a preflop reraise call for him -ev or as close as. In hand 1 specifically if you reraise to $10 or more when the flop comes your all in because you arent folding the turn no matter what it is. If the flop was AKx youd be folding in the same manner.

If you put a fair amount of money in preflop oop opponents can do nothing but push a better hand because of the strength you have shown or probably fold/call tipping their range to you. ofc, you may find a decent trapper at 100nl but thats more likely as you get to 200nl when you will find the odd renton/fnord type player more often.
08-12-2006, 04:02 PM
mcatdog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie

Nah... I just meant that a check on the turn would be weak?

I bet lots of flops and check (raise) lots of turns.

At this point if he doesn't have us smoked, he's probably got outs. Check and see what he wants to do about it. If you think he's full of it, then just check-bomb it all-in.

If vilian has a flush will he bet out here? Nah...

???
08-12-2006, 04:48 PM
Stripclubjunkie

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $100
UTG+1: $147.35
UTG+2: $215.80
Hero: $222.35
MP2: $104.40
MP3: $98.10
CO: $100.70
Button: $127.59
SB: $82.95
BB: $103.99

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is MP1 with Q:heart: Q:club:
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises to $5, 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, 3 folds.

Flop: 2:club: J:club: J:spade: ($18, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $11, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: 3:heart: ($51, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $35, SB raises all-in $66.95, Hero folds, Button calls.

River: 7:diamond: ($184.9, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $184.9)

Results:
Final pot: $184.9
08-12-2006, 04:54 PM
TerryToma

good fold, someone has trips. I would need a read before I would call this.

edit- however you took the time to post it, so shorty could be trying to steal, or thinks his lower pp is good and the button could be on a flush draw. i still fold the turn at the end as played.

the real question is if you should lead the turn or not. I doubt shorty has a jack, as he would most likely c/r the flop with 2 clubs out there. its hard to tell what the button has. any reads?
08-12-2006, 05:55 PM
Fnord

Button's smooth call with a player to act screams strong hand as I would expect him to raise 2 pair. The SB is repping trips. Unless you know they're retarded, you're good here almost never.
08-12-2006, 07:18 PM
Halv

I was thinking about wether we should bet the flop at all? We will probably never get to show down versus a worse hand (except busted draws), and if villains are in any way aggressive we are going to be easily pushed off our hand. On the other hand, a flop check by us will be seen as weakness and we could again be easily pushed off our hand.

Fnord, what's your flop play and reasoning, please?

Turn play is standard.
08-12-2006, 07:49 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by HalvSame

Fnord, what's your flop play and reasoning, please?

More often than not, just bet. I'm more inclined to check with AA/KK, particularly if it was heads-up.