can someone check this line?

Printable View

08-13-2006, 04:54 PM
popolin

can someone check this line?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP (t5085)
CO (t375)
Button (t1740)
SB (t2580)
Hero (t1410)
UTG (t2310)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
1 fold, MP calls t100, CO raises to t375, Button calls t375, 1 fold, Hero calls t275, MP calls t275.

Flop: (t1550) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (4 players)
Hero bets t1035 (All-In), MP folds, Button folds.

Turn: (t2585) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2585) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2585
08-13-2006, 05:32 PM
tcpj4

Umm..That's pretty bad.

Why call preflop? Your stack is pretty short, you don't have enough money behind to stack someone off chasing a flush/wheel straight. If you flop your ace, you're probably still behind. Let it go preflop.

why bet? there is no side pot and you don't have a made hand. Check and hope to get a free card or at the very least maximize the chances of the other players hitting a hand to take out the AI shorty, when you hit your diamond you can bet. You also want as many people as possible in the hand when you hit your draw.
08-15-2006, 03:11 PM
popolin

i made the call because i was getting 3.6 to 1. normally, i wouldn't think of calling with a raiser and a caller, but called since the raiser was all-in. i figured he's out of postflop play and his range could have opened up due to his short stack.

i understand now that i'm wasn't stacked enough to play a draw when the pot's already huge and out of position to boot. hypothetically if CO was MP, button was CO and i was button, would calling with A10 suited still be a mistake? i'm thinking it would since my stack is so small or does it open things up a bit to make calling okay?

the all-in push was a semi-bluff i suppose. i understand that i want to keep people in on draws, but i realized that with only 1000 left i might as well push. does pushing not accomplish anything here?

i don't quite understand the following points. could you elaborate?

don't bet because

Quote:

there is no side pot

Quote:

maximize the chances of the other players hitting a hand to take out the AI shorty
08-15-2006, 03:21 PM
Rondavu

Quote:

Originally Posted by popolin

I don't quite understand these points. could you elaborate?

don't bet because

Quote:

there is no side pot

Quote:

maximize the chances of the other players hitting a hand to take out the AI shorty

Basically, you're trying to make an all in player fold, which is of course impossible. If the shorty has Q9, and you don't hit your flush, shorty wins. Meanwhile, one of the opponents you bluffed out could have had A9, and eliminate shorty, which is important.

When you get down near the bubble of any tournament, it's especially important to knock out players. Don't disrespect the impact of that on your bottom line $$$.

What you did is different than protecting a hand with no side pot. You didn't make a hand yet. Don't bet without fold equity in that situation.
08-15-2006, 05:40 PM
givememyleg

Never go allin into a dry side pot like this. Fold this preflop, the odds mean nothing.
08-15-2006, 07:36 PM
jdubs

if youre going to play this ( which I wouldnt) check it down to try and eliminate shorty- if you do hit your diamond, NOW you can bet.
08-15-2006, 09:45 PM
Sprayed

Quote:

Originally Posted by givememyleg

Never go allin into a dry side pot like this. Fold this preflop, the odds mean nothing.

Daddy likes.
08-16-2006, 09:46 AM
popolin

thanks for the responses!

Quote:

When you get down near the bubble of any tournament, it's especially important to knock out players. Don't disrespect the impact of that on your bottom line $$$.

i never thought of 50/100, six-handed as or near bubble but the middle-stages, so i don't look for collusion plays until we're three/four-handed. i always imagined the bubble/near-bubble were 75/150 (at stars anyway) and up with 4/5 players.

it's funny because i was using the reverse logic for my move. if i go
all-in, the other two players might fold, getting fold equity there (or do you get fold equity when ALL the players fold?), and i would showdown with the shortstack. if he had pocket pair, perhaps my A3 would have had more outs if the other two stacks folded (maybe two more As?). i guess what was going through my mind at the time was a tradeoff between:

risking my stack and :
- potentially picking up a big pot so i'm in better shape
- losing: we're six-handed and shorty is back in it with 1500; i am down to 1000 with an orbit of six players. more hands per orbit to pick something up.

check/fold:
- i thought folding to a bet would be likely as MP and button have position. now, i realize i could checking gives MP and button the option of getting a free card to take out shortstack.
- someone takes out shortstack, and we're five-handed if i fold/don't hit the flush and i'm at 1000.
09-05-2006, 03:16 AM
popolin

hi again, perhaps all that's been needed to be said has already been said, but i was curious if someone can reply to my last post.

thanks!
09-05-2006, 03:55 AM
taipan168

OK, I will have a go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by popolin

Quote:

When you get down near the bubble of any tournament, it's especially important to knock out players. Don't disrespect the impact of that on your bottom line $$$.

i never thought of 50/100, six-handed as or near bubble but the middle-stages, so i don't look for collusion plays until we're three/four-handed. i always imagined the bubble/near-bubble were 75/150 (at stars anyway) and up with 4/5 players.

Blind levels have nothing to do with it, it is the number of players left. You still gain a significant amount of equity by knocking out one player and moving from 6-handed to 5-handed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by popolin

it's funny because i was using the reverse logic for my move. if i go all-in, the other two players might fold, getting fold equity there (or do you get fold equity when ALL the players fold?), and i would showdown with the shortstack. if he had pocket pair, perhaps my A3 would have had more outs if the other two stacks folded (maybe two more As?).

Although you probably have fold equity against Button because his stack is only a bit bigger than yours, MP has you significantly outstacked so can call you with impunity. If MP has a J or maybe even a 9 in his hand he's calling your push and you are behind. Plus, the "check-down" convention generally (although not always) means that nobody will bet at the pot without a real hand, so you will probably get to see the turn and river for free. If you hit your flush on those streets THEN you bet and the pot is the same size it would have been in had everybody folded to your flop bet BUT its much lower risk because a) you now have a hand you can showdown with and b) you're not taking the risk of busting out against MP.

Sorry, that was a bit long-winded, let me know if it doesn't make sense.
09-06-2006, 05:48 PM
popolin

Quote:

Originally Posted by taipan168

Plus, the "check-down" convention generally (although not always) means that nobody will bet at the pot without a real hand, so you will probably get to see the turn and river for free. If you hit your flush on those streets THEN you bet and the pot is the same size it would have been in had everybody folded to your flop bet BUT its much lower risk because a) you now have a hand you can showdown with and b) you're not taking the risk of busting out against MP.

very nice, i like it. thanks.