4 drawing hands, please comment and advice play

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08-24-2006, 03:21 PM
Borax

4 drawing hands, please comment and advice play

***Hand1***Hold'em NL (£0.15/£0.25)

Seat 1: (£23.75 in chips)
Seat 2: (£39.60 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero (£20.85 in chips)
Seat 4: (£34.08 in chips)
Seat 5: (£29.80 in chips)
Seat 6: (£15 in chips)
Seat 7: Button (£15.55 in chips)
Seat 8: (£7 in chips)
Seat 9: BB (£61.13 in chips)
Seat 10: sits out

SB: posts small blind £0.15
BB: posts big blind £0.25
MP3: posts big blind £0.25

dealt to Hero :Jd::Qd:

2 folds
Hero: raises to £1
MP1: calls £1
MP2: folds
MP3: calls £0.75
2 folds
BB: calls £0.75

----- FLOP ----- :4d::Kd::Jc: (Pot: £4.15)

BB: checks
Hero: bets £4
2 folds
BB: raises to £11
Hero: :?: (Pot: £19.5)

***Hand 2***Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1)

Seat 1: UTG+1 ($23.50 in chips)
Seat 2: ($166.60 in chips)
Seat 3: MP1 ($50 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($99.50 in chips) (MP2)
Seat 5: MP3 ($134.67 in chips)
Seat 6: ($98 in chips)
Seat 7: Button ($65 in chips)
Seat 8: ($37.25 in chips)
Seat 9: ($74.50 in chips)
Seat 10: ($99 in chips)

SB: posts small blind $0.50
BB: posts big blind $1

dealt to Hero :Qd::Jd:

UTG: folds
UTG+1: calls $1
UTG+2: folds
MP1: calls $1
Hero: calls $1
MP3: raises to $2
4 folds
UTG+1: calls $1
MP1: calls $1
Hero: calls $1

----- FLOP ----- :Kc::Tc::3d: (Pot: $9.5)

UTG+1: checks
MP1: checks
Hero: checks
MP3: bets $7
2 folds
Hero: calls $7

----- TURN ----- :5d: (Pot: $23.5)

Hero: checks :?:
MP3: bets $15
Hero: :?: :?: (Pot: $38.5)

***Hand 3*** Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1)

Seat 1: ($84 in chips)
Seat 2: ($169.60 in chips)
Seat 3: ($53.75 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($82.75 in chips) (UTG+1)
Seat 5: ($162.67 in chips)
Seat 6: ($106.50 in chips)
Seat 7: ($98.50 in chips)
Seat 8: MP3 ($18.50 in chips)
Seat 9: ($77 in chips)
Seat 10: Button ($94.75 in chips)

SB: posts small blind $0.50
BB: posts big blind $1

dealt to Hero :Jd::Td:

UTG: calls $1
Hero: calls $1
3 folds
MP3: raises to $6
5 folds
Hero: calls $5

----- FLOP ----- :Qs::Tc::8h: (Pot: $11)

Hero: :?:

***Hand 4*** Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1)

Seat 2: ($94.50 in chips)
Seat 3: ($85 in chips)
Seat 4: Button ($79 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero ($209 in chips)
Seat 6: BB ($100 in chips)
Seat 7: ($5.37 in chips)
Seat 8: ($19 in chips)
Seat 9: ($56 in chips)
Seat 10: ($120.25 in chips)

Hero: posts small blind $0.50
BB: posts big blind $1

dealt to Hero :Qd::Jd:

7 folds
Hero: raises to $3
BB: calls $2

----- FLOP ----- :2d::3d::4c: (Pot: $6.5)

Hero: bets $5
BB: calls $5

----- TURN ----- :9c: (Pot: $16.5)

Hero: bets $10
BB: raises to $24
Hero: :?: (Pot: $50.5 and $14 to call)

************************
08-24-2006, 03:49 PM
BankItDrew

Hand 1: limp preflop. as played, push on raise.

Hand 2: pushing or leading strong or calling here is fine.

Hand 3: check raise big or lead flop for at least 3/4 pot.

Hand 4: fold. It's another $14 in a $50 pot. so if u hit your diamond you have to get another $34 from him to make this play profitable. in position - call, out of position - fold.
08-24-2006, 04:09 PM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

Hand 1: limp preflop. as played, push on raise.

why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

Hand 2: pushing or leading strong or calling here is fine.

why?
08-24-2006, 04:18 PM
BankItDrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

Hand 1: limp preflop. as played, push on raise.

why?

Because you have the best hand here via the draw. Vs. AA I think you are a 52% favorite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

Hand 2: pushing or leading strong or calling here is fine.

why?

Half as above. But you still have fold equity against anything less than KQ.
08-24-2006, 04:19 PM
takesix

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

Hand 1: limp preflop. as played, push on raise.

why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

Hand 2: pushing or leading strong or calling here is fine.

why?

Hand 1: He has 15 left of his original 20, and 7 to call the flop reraise, leaving him with 8 in what will be a 26 pot, comitting him on the turn anyway. He has a 15 outs, and it's gonna take runners to counterfeit them. Push is fine, but I play my combo draws very aggressively.

Hand 2: 13 clean outs, $39 pot with $15 to call. The turn check sucks IMO as villain's hand isn't defined very well -- set, AK, very aggressive club draw (I fire 2nd barrels on draws in position a fair amount), but if this is a thinking player a c/r push could scare him off. Even so, with stacks this deep and 13 clean outs, I'm looking for a call here and value betting a non club river.
08-24-2006, 04:37 PM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

Because you have the best hand here via the draw. Vs. AA I think you are a 52% favorite.

how often does a single pair hand play this way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

Half as above. But you still have fold equity against anything less than KQ.

seems a bit overkill to push there
08-24-2006, 06:48 PM
freechus9

Pushing in hand 2 is terrible since there's so much money behind. I raise to 45 and call a push, hope for a fold. If its a call I check/fold a missed river since he wont fold a push after that.
08-24-2006, 07:18 PM
bair

why are we raising hand 2? what made hand just calls on the flop? your fold equity is pretty low, i'd say 0 unless you push. the only reason i can see for raising the turn is if you plan on pushing a brick
08-24-2006, 07:22 PM
freechus9

Quote:

Originally Posted by bair

why are we raising hand 2? what made hand just calls on the flop?

Because we have an enormous drawing hand with some FE against TP/marginal hands. If villain decides to push, we're getting enormous pot odds for our draw, as well.
08-24-2006, 07:31 PM
bair

if villain decides to push, you are getting artificial odds. why do you have fold equity here? his hand looks relatively strong, and our weak preflop, flop, and turn line give us pretty much no FE vs a thinking player. sure we have an enormous drawing hand, but theres only one card left...i dont see why we cant just call. there is absolutely no strong hand that check-calls that flop multiway, and then checks the turn again risking a check-behind to c/r. i think we gave up playing this aggressively when we played the flop weak, which we should have. i like calling the turn because if a diamond hits he wont expect it because we are put on clubs or QJ, so i see no reason to raise because our draw is already half-way disguised
08-25-2006, 12:05 AM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by bair

if villain decides to push, you are getting artificial odds. why do you have fold equity here? his hand looks relatively strong, and our weak preflop, flop, and turn line give us pretty much no FE vs a thinking player. sure we have an enormous drawing hand, but theres only one card left...i dont see why we cant just call. there is absolutely no strong hand that check-calls that flop multiway, and then checks the turn again risking a check-behind to c/r. i think we gave up playing this aggressively when we played the flop weak, which we should have. i like calling the turn because if a diamond hits he wont expect it because we are put on clubs or QJ, so i see no reason to raise because our draw is already half-way disguised

agreed. also, pairs+fd's & turned 15-outters aren't licenses to print money
08-25-2006, 12:26 AM
Renton

1. Looks good if you pushed.

2. I don't like raising the turn in this hand, just call the turn and hope you hit. You will get paid if you do, so the implied odds are there.

3. You absolutely must fold preflop here. Pay attention to stack sizes when you call raises with weak hands. You are also out of position, so I don't think you can even call this against a full stack.

4. Call and see the river.
08-25-2006, 12:57 AM
BankItDrew

PokerStars Game #6042260440: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/08/25 - 00:46:15 (ET)
Table 'Reni' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: The3rd eye ($40.95 in chips)
Seat 2: TimmisG ($11.20 in chips)
Seat 3: jon you know ($8.40 in chips)
Seat 4: BankItDrew ($25.65 in chips)
Seat 5: lyso125 ($13.55 in chips)
Seat 6: ZeeRaX ($74.05 in chips)
Seat 7: pwr2peaceful ($9.75 in chips)
Seat 8: 5000hands ($27.65 in chips)
Seat 9: NoDan ($8.90 in chips)
The3rd eye: posts small blind $0.10
TimmisG: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BankItDrew [:6s: :As:]
jon you know: calls $0.25
BankItDrew: calls $0.25
lyso125: folds
ZeeRaX: folds
pwr2peaceful: folds
5000hands: folds
NoDan: folds
The3rd eye: calls $0.15
TimmisG: checks
*** FLOP *** [:5h: :4s: :3c:]
The3rd eye: checks
TimmisG: checks
jon you know: bets $0.75
BankItDrew: calls $0.75
The3rd eye: folds
The3rd eye leaves the table
TimmisG: folds
*** TURN *** [:5h: :4s: :3c:] [:Ks:]
jon you know: bets $1.50
BankItDrew: raises $23.15 to $24.65 and is all-in
jon you know: folds

Here, my opponent is only going to call with at least a pair of kings. You can see how a :Ks: works better for me than a :Ts: might. Out of position I would be pushing here as well.
08-25-2006, 01:01 AM
martindcx1e

so you like pushing 90+ BB's into a 16BB pot?
08-25-2006, 01:02 AM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

so you like pushing 90+ BB's into a 16BB pot?

notice his stack
08-25-2006, 01:14 AM
TerryToma

tough hands. i think hand 1 he's got a set. i dont like pushing in this case though. call or fold.

overall i dont like these HHs, i would like to see pot-sizes, and its too late at night for my math skillz. pls use different converter next time thnx.
08-25-2006, 01:18 AM
TerryToma

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

2. I don't like raising the turn in this hand, just call the turn and hope you hit. You will get paid if you do, so the implied odds are there.

Good point, its hard to put someone on a backdoor flush, they get paid off a lot. And your OESD is a bit sneaky as well. You hit on riv, you win.
08-25-2006, 01:50 AM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

so you like pushing 90+ BB's into a 16BB pot?

notice his stack

lol oops
08-25-2006, 07:57 AM
Borax

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryToma

tough hands. i think hand 1 he's got a set. i dont like pushing in this case though. call or fold.

overall i dont like these HHs, i would like to see pot-sizes, and its too late at night for my math skillz. pls use different converter next time thnx.

Pot sizes have now been added. Do you now about a converter that works for Expekt, Bettson and William Hill?
08-25-2006, 03:44 PM
benny999

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borax

Pot sizes have now been added. Do you now about a converter that works for Expekt, Bettson and William Hill?

Did you try http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter

It supports...
* Poker room skins
* Party Poker
* Poker Stars
* Absolute Poker
* Prima Poker
* Paradise Poker
* Ultimate Bet
* Cryptologic
* Full Tilt Poker
08-26-2006, 11:42 AM
Borax

Re: 4 drawing hands, please comment and advice play

Thanks for all comments. Here is how the hands ended:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borax

***Hand1***Hold'em NL (£0.15/£0.25)

Seat 1: (£23.75 in chips)
Seat 2: (£39.60 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero (£20.85 in chips)
Seat 4: (£34.08 in chips)
Seat 5: (£29.80 in chips)
Seat 6: (£15 in chips)
Seat 7: Button (£15.55 in chips)
Seat 8: (£7 in chips)
Seat 9: BB (£61.13 in chips)
Seat 10: sits out

SB: posts small blind £0.15
BB: posts big blind £0.25
MP3: posts big blind £0.25

dealt to Hero :Jd::Qd:

2 folds
Hero: raises to £1
MP1: calls £1
MP2: folds
MP3: calls £0.75
2 folds
BB: calls £0.75

----- FLOP ----- :4d::Kd::Jc: (Pot: £4.15)

BB: checks
Hero: bets £4
2 folds
BB: raises to £11
Hero: :?: (Pot: £19.5)

Hero: raises to £19.85 and is all-in
BB: calls £8.85

----- TURN ----- :Kh:

----- RIVER ----- :3c:

----- SHOW DOWN -----

Hero: shows :Jd::Qd: (Two Pairs, Kings and Jacks)
BB: shows :Kc::As: (Three of a kind, Kings)
BB collects £41.70 from Main pot

Quote:

***Hand 2***Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1)

Seat 1: UTG+1 ($23.50 in chips)
Seat 2: ($166.60 in chips)
Seat 3: MP1 ($50 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($99.50 in chips) (MP2)
Seat 5: MP3 ($134.67 in chips)
Seat 6: ($98 in chips)
Seat 7: Button ($65 in chips)
Seat 8: ($37.25 in chips)
Seat 9: ($74.50 in chips)
Seat 10: ($99 in chips)

SB: posts small blind $0.50
BB: posts big blind $1

dealt to Hero :Qd::Jd:

UTG: folds
UTG+1: calls $1
UTG+2: folds
MP1: calls $1
Hero: calls $1
MP3: raises to $2
4 folds
UTG+1: calls $1
MP1: calls $1
Hero: calls $1

----- FLOP ----- :Kc::Tc::3d: (Pot: $9.5)

UTG+1: checks
MP1: checks
Hero: checks
MP3: bets $7
2 folds
Hero: calls $7

----- TURN ----- :5d: (Pot: $23.5)

Hero: checks :?:
MP3: bets $15
Hero: :?: :?: (Pot: $38.5)

Hero: calls $15
----- RIVER ----- :Kh:
Hero: checks
MP3: bets $20
Hero: folds

Quote:

***Hand 3*** Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1)

Seat 1: ($84 in chips)
Seat 2: ($169.60 in chips)
Seat 3: ($53.75 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($82.75 in chips) (UTG+1)
Seat 5: ($162.67 in chips)
Seat 6: ($106.50 in chips)
Seat 7: ($98.50 in chips)
Seat 8: MP3 ($18.50 in chips)
Seat 9: ($77 in chips)
Seat 10: Button ($94.75 in chips)

SB: posts small blind $0.50
BB: posts big blind $1

dealt to Hero :Jd::Td:

UTG: calls $1
Hero: calls $1
3 folds
MP3: raises to $6
5 folds
Hero: calls $5

----- FLOP ----- :Qs::Tc::8h: (Pot: $11)

Hero: :?:

Hero: bets $13
MP3: is all-in $12.50
Returned uncalled bets $0.50 to Hero

----- TURN ----- :Kc:

----- RIVER ----- :Js:

----- SHOW DOWN -----

Hero: shows :Jd::Td: (Two Pairs, Jacks and Tens, King high)
MP3: shows :Kh::Ac: (A Straight, Ace high)
MP3 collects $37.75 from Main pot

Quote:

***Hand 4*** Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1)

Seat 2: ($94.50 in chips)
Seat 3: ($85 in chips)
Seat 4: Button ($79 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero ($209 in chips)
Seat 6: BB ($100 in chips)
Seat 7: ($5.37 in chips)
Seat 8: ($19 in chips)
Seat 9: ($56 in chips)
Seat 10: ($120.25 in chips)

Hero: posts small blind $0.50
BB: posts big blind $1

dealt to Hero :Qd::Jd:

7 folds
Hero: raises to $3
BB: calls $2

----- FLOP ----- :2d::3d::4c: (Pot: $6.5)

Hero: bets $5
BB: calls $5

----- TURN ----- :9c: (Pot: $16.5)

Hero: bets $10
BB: raises to $24
Hero: :?: (Pot: $50.5 and $14 to call)

Hero: calls $14

----- RIVER ----- :9h:

Hero: checks
BB: bets $40
Hero: folds

************************
08-30-2006, 05:30 AM
Borax

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny999

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borax

Pot sizes have now been added. Do you now about a converter that works for Expekt, Bettson and William Hill?

Did you try http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter

It supports...
* Poker room skins
* Party Poker
* Poker Stars
* Absolute Poker
* Prima Poker
* Paradise Poker
* Ultimate Bet
* Cryptologic
* Full Tilt Poker

Thank you very much :) The converter works ok, only you have to change the card symbols in the end. I'll use it from now on.