88 super-shortie AI pre-flop

I'm clueless here. Is calling the shortie's PFR bad? Is the flop bet terrible? Should I have bet again on the turn or river? Throw me a frickin bone here.

No stats on super-shortie, but MP2 is laggy, 39/11/27 over 150 hands.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($50)
Hero ($49.75)
UTG+2 ($32.20)
MP1 ($50.15)
MP2 ($85.86)
MP3 ($5.90)
CO ($50.60)
Button ($45.70)
SB ($40.55)
BB ($50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, MP2 calls $2, MP3 raises to $5.90 (All-In), 4 folds, Hero calls $3.90, MP2 calls $3.90.

Flop: ($18.45) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets $5, MP2 calls $5.

Turn: ($28.45) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: ($28.45) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: $28.45

i raise to 10 and push mp2 out of the equation.

Should have at least bet the river IMO. Seems like a busted f-draw.

Apart from the flop bet which is too small, I think its fine...

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Originally Posted by renegaderob1

Apart from the flop bet which is too small, I think its fine...

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Why would you have skipped a river bet, just curious.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Giggles

Should have at least bet the river IMO. Seems like a busted f-draw.

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why? If you think he has a busted F-draw, then let him bluff at the pot. He is less likely to bluff at it with shorty all-in already.

I think he is more likely to have a pocketpair himself.. not sure if its higher or lower.. as played probably lower, but you dont know that going in to the river oop. he coudl very easily have 99

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Originally Posted by Renton

i raise to 10 and push mp2 out of the equation.

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Ok, that sounds better. As played what do you do post-flop? I can't come up with any strategy that really makes sense for this situation.

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Originally Posted by TerryToma

I think he is more likely to have a pocketpair himself.. not sure if its higher or lower.. as played probably lower, but you dont know that going in to the river oop. he coudl very easily have 99

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Nice call Toma!

He called $5 for a reason then checked the turn in position, that's weak enough for me to value bet a rag on the river, thats all I'm saying. This guy didn't end up bluffing the pot so a value bet might have been good for a couple bucks and my read couldn't have been that bad aye? To each their own, no biggie.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Giggles

He called $5 for a reason then checked the turn in position, that's weak enough for me to value bet a rag on the river, thats all I'm saying. This guy didn't end up bluffing the pot so a value bet might have been good for a couple bucks and my read couldn't have been that bad aye? To each their own, no biggie.

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this is a big part of poker. we all need to learn river bets. betting mediocre hands on the river is -ev oop. better hands call/raise. worse hands fold.

checking allows for bluffs/saves $.

in this case what hands that you beat call? what hands that you would lose to fold? important to think about.

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Originally Posted by zook

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Originally Posted by TerryToma

I think he is more likely to have a pocketpair himself.. not sure if its higher or lower.. as played probably lower, but you dont know that going in to the river oop. he coudl very easily have 99

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Nice call Toma!

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woohoo! i have been in this situation many times, thats how it always seems to end up! just getting edged out. of course if you would have repped the A on the flop he would have had AQ.

" I think he is more likely to have a pocketpair himself.. not sure if its higher or lower.. as played probably lower"

A small PP will call a small bet, which is what you already said he probably had. :D

it is OK to give a free draw on sixth street.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Giggles

" I think he is more likely to have a pocketpair himself.. not sure if its higher or lower.. as played probably lower"

A small PP will call a small bet, which is what you already said he probably had. :D

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true.. cant have 66/77 as he would hvae a set.. 55-22 possible. but 99 very possible due to the fact he hung around with all the pre-flop action, and stuck it out post flop.

so with a pp, what bet would get him to fold?? the only reason i put him on 99 was because of his river check.. i still dont think we have enough info betting into the river on what he has............... just thinking out loud. many options, many are justifiable.

so betting the river is a good idea if you think you can push him off 99/jj... betting small is a good idea if you think they will call with 55-22.. checkign is a good idea if you are convinced of a busted flush draw, and call the riv bluff..

I hear what you're saying, but I don't want him to fold...I just want to squeeze a couple more bucks outta this if possible.

I have no problems with your through process at all. This is good stuff, and why I post at many different forums, to exchange ideas and learn. I'm crashing, have a good night bro.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Giggles

I hear what you're saying, but I don't want him to fold...I just want to squeeze a couple more bucks outta this if possible.

I have no problems with your through process at all. This is good stuff, and why I post at many different forums, to exchange ideas and learn. I'm crashing, have a good night bro.

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im crashing too..
but value betting is -ev in this case.. only K7s will call you. perhaps even 22-55 will fold. better hands raise/call and you are out more $$. 99 calls.

and K7s doesnt call this preflop unles they are tarded.

I'm still left with the question of whether I should have bet into the dry side pot on the flop. I know in tourneys it's usually a no-no because you want to eliminate the shorty, but what about in ring?

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Originally Posted by zook

I'm still left with the question of whether I should have bet into the dry side pot on the flop. I know in tourneys it's usually a no-no because you want to eliminate the shorty, but what about in ring?

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With hero's hand, I just check it down. I'd be curious to know what others' default play is as well...

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Originally Posted by Dr_Giggles

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Originally Posted by renegaderob1

Apart from the flop bet which is too small, I think its fine...

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Why would you have skipped a river bet, just curious.

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Mainly for the reasons TerryToma mentioned. There's a fine line between -EV and extracting value on rivers. Besides, if he calls my flop bet (which is much higher than hero's in this case), i'm most probably behind here and welcome a cheap showdown...

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Originally Posted by renegaderob1

Besides, if he calls my flop bet (which is much higher than hero's in this case), i'm most probably behind here and welcome a cheap showdown...

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I'm curious why you would make a big bet into a dry side pot? You're conceivably playing for nothing but the chance to get beaten by shorty's better pair. It seems like all a big bet does is fold hands you beat and lose money to hands you don't. I tried to make a weak-looking bet for value and get marginal pairs or overcards to come along. I think betting into a dry side pot requires much different thinking, but I'm still fuzzy on what it should be.

Make dry side pots wet in ring.