Hand vs Fnord

This hand had me playing a lot of what-if games...

Fnord is 30/15 and hasn't been too out of line.
You're 26/16 and very TAggy (including aggro post-flop.)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($39.75)
BB ($120.15)
UTG ($72.40)
Fnord ($154.30)
CO ($25.60)
Button ($112.40)

Preflop: BB has Q:diamond:, T:diamond:.
1 fold, Fnord raises to $4, 3 folds, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($8.50) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets $6, Fnord calls $6.

Turn: ($20.50) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets $12, Fnord calls $12.

River: ($44.50) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets $30, Fnord shoves

Fold or call?
What do you think Fnord has? (range)
What does Fnord think you have? (range)
How well do you think this hand was played?

what does fnord think of me before this took place?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gabe

what does fnord think of me before this took place?

---

Quote:

---

You're 26/16 and very TAggy (including aggro post-flop.)

---

1) I fold

2) AK, AQ, AT, KT suited or otherwise, 44, 55, AA,

3) Any T. 2 pr, very little likelihood of a busted flush

4) From Fnord's point of view, if we have AA, KT, 44 or 55 very well. We know opp is aggro postflop, so let him fire away. Our shove on the river makes us look strong, but we could be weak, but we may want a call............ which leaves doubt of our strength in opp's mind and leans him towards a call.

Opponant has shown strength on every street, so Fnord must expect there to be a good chance he will be called, with Fnord's action looking like a possible missed draw to villain - which means villain is even more likely to call if he has anything. If fnord has just an two pair (AK/AQ etc) then there is not much value in raising the river, as villain isnt calling with a missed draw and is unlikely to have an ace with a worse kicker, and Fnord knows this so I think you can discount all Ax apart from possible A10.

10x is another possiblity but I think it is unlikely, as a raise on the flop would be more likely with such a vulnerable hand, although Fnord may just want to keep the pot small with a marginal hand.

44,55 - These are the most likely hands, even though they have been played in an unorthodox way - it is a good way to play them against decent players, attempting to manipulate the "what does the think I have?" and get paid by misrepresenting your hand, opponant would think "not raising on a draw heavy flop, must be drawing, no way he has a made hand he would have raised to get rid of the draws" and so a river push is far more likely to get called assuming another spade doesnt fall.

Air is a possiblity, with Fnord calling to bluff on any of the numerous scare cards that could come up any overcard or spade, and even a 3 or 8)

also a missed draw - 2 spade, 67. however this is less likely due to the river push which is likely to be called given fnord has played his hand like a draw and opponant has shown strength all the way

Given what Fnord knows - by far and away the most likely hands are 44 or 55, followed by 10x with x most likely being an ace.

If Fnord did have 44 or 55, then I think that this hand is played extremely well, getting maximum value by representing a draw, the pay off for playing sets this way outweigh the times when your action is killed by a spade.

fold.

Fnord hates and recognizes "weak" river value/blocking bets with medium strenght hands when he sees them, so I think I call.

I call, I don't think Fnord plays his big hands like this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gabe

what does fnord think of me before this took place?

---

You play strong pre-flop hands very fast and don't pay enough heed to pot control.

Fnord has AT over half the time IMO

meh nvm im torn between KT and AT

The hand that fits the best for Fnord is AT or air to me. It seems so weird to call the flop with a set, but like toadstool says, he may get paid better in this hand by doing that, so I put 44/55 in his range but not as likely as air and AT.

After the river I think fnord would call or fold AK/AQ, and recognize the river bet as a strong hand (most likely Tx, air or boat) making a bluff raise less likely...so I guess fold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nutsinho

Fnord has AT over half the time IMO

---

Yeah, well BB has almost invested half his stack. Fnord didn't likely flop a set, he is putting in a raise at latest by the turn, if the A has opponent beat he is shutting down anyhow and no reason to give a free card for a spades draw. Fnord is probably capable of doing this with a missed draw and JT 9T so it would be hard to motivate a fold with these odds. Fnord is also often putting in a raise with AT on the turn.

AT for fnord does not make sense since he would surely reraise turn to force straight and flush draws to pay? Right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by !Luck

AT for fnord does not make sense since he would surely reraise turn to force straight and flush draws to pay? Right.

---

Unless I don't think he has a draw and think there is a good chance he has a set/pair-worse-than-aces/air if he's firing again with a respectable bet on that turn.

if i were him i would call. 30/15s that havent been out of line love to get out of line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by !Luck

AT for fnord does not make sense since he would surely reraise turn to force straight and flush draws to pay? Right.

---

Unless I don't think he has a draw and think there is a good chance he has a set/pair-worse-than-aces/air if he's firing again with a respectable bet on that turn.

---

my thoughts exactly

Oh yeah, I had ATs. Thoughts?

I was surprised when he tanked and laid it down. Then again maybe he lied about what he had. The flop and turn plays are both pretty interesting imho...

:)

Haven't read results yet.

Fnord turns over an unusually played flopped-set or a rivered-boat with A-10 since we are aggro post-flop.

Fnord hopes we have a 10.

This hand was played very well by the deck. The deck played the river extremely well for Fnord.

EDIT : cool hand Fnord. Why am I always like 1 post too late?

I like the way you played the hand. I still think its a very hard laydown against a player like you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robert

Fnord hates and recognizes "weak" river value/blocking bets with medium strenght hands when he sees them, so I think I call.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fnord

River: ($44.50) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets $30

---

doesn't look like a weak value/blocking bet to me

Yeah, that's a hand quite often on the river. Sometimes a well sized 3rd bullet with a bust hand. Very rarely anything in between.

I think you played AT good, but BB would do better with check/call turn and/or bet less on the river.

What do you think of BB's play? I mean there's a balance between looking weak and getting positional bluffed, and broadcasting a hand where you only get called/raised when beaten (or still bluffed), right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by !Luck

AT for fnord does not make sense since he would surely reraise turn to force straight and flush draws to pay? Right.

---

Unless I don't think he has a draw and think there is a good chance he has a set/pair-worse-than-aces/air if he's firing again with a respectable bet on that turn.

---

I do not really understand what you mean here. Are you trying to milk a slightly worse hand for as much as you can and yet minimize your losses if he has you beat with a set? I look forward to your reply, because in my book that is a raise to 36 ever time. Though i am a break-even player.

Hope i didn't hijack your thread.