Turn value and pot control - Where is the line?

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09-05-2006, 09:32 AM
Irisheyes

Turn value and pot control - Where is the line?

I used to bet lots of turn cards and get minraised on the turn too much. Then I learned about pot control and started checking far too many turns. I realised that this was causing me problems too so now I'm trying to discover a happy medium.

So, here's a spot where the flop is pretty draw heavy, yet I have a hand which is rather vulnerable. I'm stuck between betting and checking, both options having pros and cons.

Should I bet or check?
If I should bet, how much?
Should I be more likely to check if I am OOP on the flop?
How does this change if my hand is A :heart: J :spade:
How does this change if my hand is A :heart: A :spade:

Assume I have no reads.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($118.40)
BB ($90.53)
UTG ($197.45)
MP ($213.75)
Hero ($191)
Button ($75.15)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $10, 3 folds, UTG calls $8.

Flop: ($23) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $16, UTG calls $16.

Turn: ($55) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero ??
09-05-2006, 10:18 AM
gabe

i play AJ and AA like the nuts on this board usually, JT i bet turn and check river unless a Ts or a Th comes
09-05-2006, 12:56 PM
samsonite2100

Quote:

i play AJ and AA like the nuts on this board usually

So how does this mean you play differently w/ those hands?

Irish, I definitely bet this turn.[/quote]
09-05-2006, 01:25 PM
gabe

i play different when opponent and i have history, or i just have a read on them
09-05-2006, 02:52 PM
Genitruc

I check turn all day OOP but I think this may be a leak. The one benefit I see is that typical unknowns now put you on missed overs usually.

My pokertracker sample is not big but I seem to have made a lot of money by people not giving me credit for anything after checking this turn. Some ppl will value-bet hands like 99 on the river if you keep checking to them whereas they would possibly fold to a 2nd barrel.
09-05-2006, 05:01 PM
Irisheyes

So how weak does our hand have to be before checking becomes correct? What if I turn the 4 :diamond: into the Q :diamond: on the flop?
09-05-2006, 05:46 PM
Fnord

Without reads I usually check here.
09-05-2006, 06:55 PM
Miffed22001

why does your opponent limp, especially UTG?
id give a free crad if hes a tighty who would have a pp here and value out of his river bet, but id bet here if opp is slighty fishy and has been known to limp sooted stuff from utg.
09-05-2006, 07:08 PM
Bmxicle

I bet 39 and i'm pretty much not putting a cent more into the pot after that without improving.
09-06-2006, 08:35 AM
thnwkd

I check behind here for pot control and call a reasonable bet on a safe river.

with AJo i chk behind on flop and bet the 16.00 on turn.

with AA i bet the flop and bet like 35.00 on turn
09-06-2006, 02:48 PM
Irisheyes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Without reads I usually check here.

And what do you do when facing a half pot bet on a diamond river? What factors do we need to consider?
09-06-2006, 03:10 PM
johnny_fish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

why does your opponent limp, especially UTG?
id give a free crad if hes a tighty who would have a pp here and value out of his river bet, but id bet here if opp is slighty fishy and has been known to limp sooted stuff from utg.

I agree. I bet turn, check river without any reads.