cbet question- reraised pf, but OOP + flop sucks

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09-12-2006, 02:52 AM
benny999

cbet question- reraised pf, but OOP + flop sucks

Button is a tag who raises a lot on the button, and shorty is unknown. I haven't reraised yet, and have a tag image.

Do you check or cbet? If you cbet, how much?

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $226
Button: $221.35
hero: $226.60
BB: $64

Pre-flop: (4 players) hero is SB with J:spade: J:diamond:
UTG folds, Button raises to $10, hero raises to $30, BB calls, Button calls.

Flop: T:club: 3:diamond: A:spade: ($90, 3 players)
hero???

I'm thinking just check and see what happens, because BB only has 30 left so he might push and then I can see what button does, and I'm probably behind now anyways. Too weak?
09-12-2006, 10:41 AM
Dr_Giggles

The first part of your post throws a couple wrenches in the works when I think about this. As for ranges, this makes me think he's only raising on the button with an ace maybe 1/3 of the time if he's button happy like you say. On the other hand, he did call a $20 RR PF, and you mention he's TAG. If he's calling that size RR without an Ax or a big PP, that doesn't mesh with TAG.

I'm going to have to use your info to check/fold this flop if he bets; I can give this guy credit for an ace if he throw's out a pot-sized bet at my check. Anything less than that and I'm popping a big RR at him.
09-12-2006, 11:27 AM
elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Giggles

The first part of your post throws a couple wrenches in the works when I think about this. As for ranges, this makes me think he's only raising on the button with an ace maybe 1/3 of the time if he's button happy like you say. On the other hand, he did call a $20 RR PF, and you mention he's TAG. If he's calling that size RR without an Ax or a big PP, that doesn't mesh with TAG.

I'm going to have to use your info to check/fold this flop if he bets; I can give this guy credit for an ace if he throw's out a pot-sized bet at my check. Anything less than that and I'm popping a big RR at him.

And if he calls?
09-12-2006, 11:31 AM
Dr_Giggles

I think you're paying for info here no matter what. Chances are if he bets my check it will be propotional and I'll jump ship anyway. If it's small I call.

What's your analysis SIR?
09-12-2006, 11:38 AM
elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Giggles

I think you're paying for info here no matter what. Chances are if he bets my check it will be propotional and I'll jump ship anyway. If it's small I call.

What's your analysis SIR?

I was just wondering what you planned to do if he calls your raise. IMO, if he calls, you're FUBARed and should check/fold the turn. The pot is already $90 and any reraise is going to pretty much pot commit you. I don't really care for putting 1/2 my stack in on the flop 'for information' and frankly, if he bets a small amount on the flop I'll flat call and see what he does on the turn.
09-12-2006, 11:40 AM
andy-akb

In a 3way pot Im checkfolding this. If the shorty pushes and the TAG folds then I may call but probably not. HU I may cbet here, in a 3way pot I most likely wont and especially not with a shortstack in there.

Giggles, why does a PSB mean an ace but a smaller bet doesnt? My standard cbet on a draw heavy flop is a PSB, but in a reraised pot Im going to be betting less than that with or without an ace. If we have a read on his bet sizing thats one thing, but simply assuming and saying if he bets less you will push [given stacks and pot sizes thats your only option if you want to raise] is spewing money.
09-12-2006, 12:29 PM
gabe

Re: cbet question- reraised pf, but OOP + flop sucks

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny999

Too weak?

no, sounds good
09-12-2006, 12:38 PM
Dr_Giggles

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

In a 3way pot Im checkfolding this. If the shorty pushes and the TAG folds then I may call but probably not. HU I may cbet here, in a 3way pot I most likely wont and especially not with a shortstack in there.

Giggles, why does a PSB mean an ace but a smaller bet doesnt? My standard cbet on a draw heavy flop is a PSB, but in a reraised pot Im going to be betting less than that with or without an ace. If we have a read on his bet sizing thats one thing, but simply assuming and saying if he bets less you will push [given stacks and pot sizes thats your only option if you want to raise] is spewing money.

PSB doesn't have to mean an ace....would just reinforce the range I felt he might hold...any large raise i'm folding anyway so it don't matter. And yes if he bets a small amount i'm calling because of the implied odds of hiting my set.
09-12-2006, 02:07 PM
benny999

I wasn't sure about this at first, but it makes sense to not donk away to a better hand oop, even though the pot is pretty big.

For results, I bet 1/2 pot, shorty called w/ AQo and button pushed with AKo and I folded. Coulda just saved $45 by checking :(
09-12-2006, 02:20 PM
Warpe

Don't c-bet into multiple opponents on flops that are likely to have hit one of them.
09-12-2006, 02:47 PM
benny999

I hear that warpe...I think I have a more fundamental leak of acting too fast/not thinking enough and focusing too much on not appearing weak after being aggressive, especially oop like this.
09-12-2006, 03:08 PM
johnny_fish

Just c/f the flop. Call if shortie pushes and button folds. Cbetting here is spewing money; you're not going to fold out better hands (except the likely QQ/KK by Button) and worse hands won't call.