River Play (and a bonus question)

BB is a donk. There really isn't another word for it. Plays over half his hands, will open for 2x and 1/2 pot c-bet. Calls a lot on cheap streets, but seems to take big bets seriously.

Pre-flop I misread my hand, I guess I really wanted to play a pot with position on the BB and in this case I hit GIN!

What's my river play?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($343.65)
Fnord ($200.70)
SB ($194)
BB ($338.05)
UTG ($197)
MP ($68.70)

Preflop: Fnord is Button with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif.
3 folds, Fnord raises to $8, 1 fold, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($17) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Fnord bets $12, BB calls $12.

Turn: ($41) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Fnord bets $30, BB calls $30.

River: ($101) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets $46

Bonus Question:

BB is the previously mentioned player.
MP is an even worse player because he's randomly aggressive too. Has already dropped over $300 at the table and keeps making funny reloads.
CO likes to take flops with pretty good cards, but seems to know what he's doing and is well aware that he's getting sick action. He's got AT LEAST top pair here. Maybe a diamond draw, but I'm pretty sure he hit this.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($430.25)
Fnord ($294.70)
SB ($163.15)
BB ($284.90)
UTG ($247.55)
MP ($146.10)

Preflop: Fnord is Button with 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
1 fold, MP raises to $4, CO calls $4, Fnord calls $4, 1 fold, BB calls $2.

Flop: ($17) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (4 players)
BB checks, MP checks, CO bets $6, Fnord ??? (BB and MP to act)

You're giving me a headache...

hand 2 you're deep enough to play for the gutshot, but what if the 8d rolls off?

Hand 1 I think warrants a call. He's a donk, but he's not stupid. He has two pair or so, and I dont see him calling a reraise unless he has you smoked.

Hand 1 I can see AQ, KQ, or even QJ. Raise as much as you think he'll call. Even if it's a min raise.

Hand 2 is a fold. You are sandwiched and drawing to 3 outs.

Hand 1: Push because he's donk.

Hand 2: Loose call. Marginally +EV imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fnord

...but seems to take big bets seriously.

Turn: ($41) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Fnord bets $30, BB calls $30.

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i would just call the river here.
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hand 2 is auto-fold for me.

Lol, answers so far to problem 1:
2 - Call
1 - Raise
1 - Push

throw fold in there. Youre toast!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by euphoricism

throw fold in there. Youre toast!

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LMAO, are you really running that bad?

Hand 1 I vote call. I think you'll see a queen or even some bizarre donkey bluff often enough to make it worthwhile. I don't think a reraise or push accomplishes much - there don't seem enough worse hands that are likely to call, and no stronger hand is folding.

Hand 2 I vote fold. If I'm drawing to a gutshot I like things to be pretty perfect. Two left to act and a potential flush draw make this an instamuck for me.

Given the action on all three streets in hand 1 I dont think a river raise will get called enough by worse hands to be profitable, so I call. Folding is of course not an option here against this guy.

Hand 2 I fold. We only have 3 clean outs and we have two aggro donks yet to act who could very well blow us out of the pot on the flop after we call CO's smallish bet. Raising in this spot is not an option IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fnord

Lol, answers so far to problem 1:
2 - Call
1 - Raise
1 - Push

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1. Miff wants to shove based on your read.
2. Call for sure. 3 money cards. You may also have oppertunity to buy pot if flush hits, but obviously we know little about other hands as fishies may just be passive check/callers with a draw.

Alright, mixed answers.

Is either or both hands close enough that it doesn't matter much?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jo

there don't seem enough worse hands that are likely to call

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You're playing the $100 NL or have you move up to $200 NL as well?

I'm just a little surprised you still give people's calling ranges so much credit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fnord

Alright, mixed answers.

Is either or both hands close enough that it doesn't matter much?

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1 wants to showdown and may showdown to a lot of river strength imo so i dont think its that close

As much as I want to raise hand 1, it really looks like he could have slowplayed a better 8 or gotten lucky with a hand like 69c/64c so i just call

Hand 2 i am folding preflop and even faster on the flop

Min-raise hand 1. He has a Queen w/ good or top kicker and will probably only call a small amount. I think he may fold to a push since you said he respects big bets. I think if he had a better hand, he would not lead out 1/2 pot. He would check-raise or bet higher for value. That's just my feeble opinion.

Like you said, Hand 2 doesn't matter much. Call and fold to a raise or just fold. Depends on your mood.