100 NL 6max hands

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11-28-2006, 01:02 PM
elipsesjeff

100 NL 6max hands

No reads, I assume they're all idiots (and usually holds true).

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($120.20)
BB ($63.75)
Hero ($122.85)
MP ($53)
CO ($159.15)
Button ($86.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
Hero raises to $3, 3 folds, SB raises to $7, 1 fold, Hero calls $4.

Flop: ($15) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($15) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($15) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets $22, Hero calls $22.

Final Pot: $59

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($56.85)
Button ($182.20)
SB ($76.15)
Hero ($88.40)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
1 fold, Button raises to $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $8, Button calls $6.

Flop: ($16.50) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $10, Button raises to $20, Hero raises to $40, Button raises to $60, Hero raises to $80, Button calls $20.

Turn: ($206.50) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $0.4 (All-In), Button calls $0.40.

River: ($207.30) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $207.30

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($205.60)
SB ($114.70)
BB ($146)
Hero ($112.25)
MP ($108.75)
CO ($50.60)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
Hero raises to $3, 3 folds, SB raises to $8, 1 fold, Hero calls $5.

Flop: ($17) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $12, SB calls $12.

Turn: ($41) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($41) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $41
11-28-2006, 01:08 PM
Fnord

I like hands 1 & 3.

Hand 2 is a tough spot. Are the stack sizes wrong? Got any reads on him? I'd love to know what sorts of hands he's opening on the button like that and min-raising post-flop.

In hand 3, I think TT/JJ has a river bet. Lower than that I like your line.
11-28-2006, 01:23 PM
elipsesjeff

Fixed. Hand 1: What about a turn bet for info like 1/2 pot?

Hand 3 I just assumed is standard but looking for reassurance.

Hand 2 has probably the most amount of judgement there.
11-28-2006, 01:25 PM
gabe

i bet turn on hand 1 sometimes, dont want him getting a free heart

hand 2, i hope something else is going on here that you didnt mention

hand 3 is fine
11-28-2006, 01:53 PM
nutsinho

1 fine, i like making him think his QQ-KK is good or giving him another chance to take a stab with air-more value here than taking away his heart draw, its not like youre obligated to call a bet if it hits.
2 no, call flop, reevaluate and probably fold turn
3 good
11-28-2006, 02:09 PM
andy-akb

1. PF should be a standard fold I would imagine. Postflop seems fine

2. Reload PF. Postflop whats up with the minraises? I most likely push over the minraise on the flop

3. This seems alright, I think I may consider betting again because as played it seems unlikely that villain has a very strong hand but there is a good chance its better than yours.

Also, why a 3xBB open?
11-28-2006, 02:41 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

Also, why a 3xBB open?

He's UTG in both the hands he opened and I convinced him to try my openers.
11-28-2006, 02:46 PM
andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

Also, why a 3xBB open?

He's UTG in both the hands he opened and I convinced him to try my openers.

Kind of the opposite of Sklansky? Raise small OOP to keep the pot down and bigger in LP to create a bigger pot?
11-28-2006, 02:48 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

Kind of the opposite of Sklansky? Raise small OOP to keep the pot down and bigger in LP to create a bigger pot?

Opposite? I think I got this idea from him!

Re-raise defense and inducing loose BB/SB calls also plays a big part in this.
11-28-2006, 03:13 PM
Harry

WTF is going on in hand 2? Relapse to your LHE days?
11-28-2006, 03:24 PM
andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

Kind of the opposite of Sklansky? Raise small OOP to keep the pot down and bigger in LP to create a bigger pot?

Opposite? I think I got this idea from him!

Re-raise defense and inducing loose BB/SB calls also plays a big part in this.

No, Im pretty sure he says to raise bigger OOP and smaller in position. It has been awhile since I read NLHETAP though so I could be off.
11-28-2006, 03:31 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

No, Im pretty sure he says to raise bigger OOP and smaller in position. It has been awhile since I read NLHETAP though so I could be off.

*shrug* pretty sure I read it from a forum post anyway. From there I did my homework and played with a bunch of different stuff and styles. For the current online game conditions I really like this opening strategy. In a Live game, it's probably backwards though.
11-28-2006, 03:32 PM
benny999

I just am finishing that book now, and it does talk about raising more oop to give less implied odds and define other hands better.
11-28-2006, 03:38 PM
Fnord

YMMV

Given the way these games are playing right now and where players like me get value from the field, I think it's the right play.

I'm well aware that many forum regulars disagree.
11-28-2006, 03:48 PM
benny999

heh, actually I don't have a strong opinion yet on that, but am curious if you have a link to that forum or could write ideas behind why you like raising less oop. been trying a lot of other stuff out lately.
11-28-2006, 03:55 PM
andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

YMMV

Given the way these games are playing right now and where players like me get value from the field, I think it's the right play.

I'm well aware that many forum regulars disagree.

While I do disagree with it, that wasnt really the point of my post. I was just kind of commenting on how it seems opposite to what sklansky suggests. And for the record, I disagree with both.
11-28-2006, 04:20 PM
gabe

i just open 3bb because i get reraised alot and its easier to call reraises because they are smaller relative to stack sizes
11-28-2006, 05:19 PM
elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy

1. PF should be a standard fold I would imagine.

But its SOOTED!! It's really close. I'm getting 36% to call and the odds are:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 29.6423 % 29.38% 00.26% { ATs }
Hand 2: 70.3577 % 70.10% 00.26% { JJ+ }

I'll make the fold sometimes but I also believe if your opponents see you raise but fold to small reraises shania may take over. If it was unsuited its a much easier fold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe

hand 2, i hope something else is going on here that you didnt mention

Oh, if only that were true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

He's UTG in both the hands he opened and I convinced him to try my openers.

To say its interesting is an understatement. I'm going to try it for another 10,000 hands or so and see if i can get the hang of it more. It helps you not make loose calls and you really notice the inability of your opponents to build pots.

More thoughts on Hand 2:

My reraise was more 'for information' which really isn't all that great a reason. My thinking was villain could have A7 or even 78 two pair. A call probably would have been better and I could very easily folded the turn. The only thing I'm a real big underdog too in this situation is the made straight; two pair i'm 60/40 and a set i'm 80/20.

Results:

H1: Villain had JJ for a premier example of how not to build a pot.

I'm wonder if I bet the turn in hand 1 and he calls, the river would really fuck me into paying a lot to see a showdown given the pot doubled.

H2: Villain had 77.
H3: Villain had JJ.
11-28-2006, 05:29 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy

1. PF should be a standard fold I would imagine.

But its SOOTED!! It's really close. I'm getting 36% to call and the odds are:

Ignore the all-in odds. This is a really easy call with position.
11-28-2006, 06:30 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

No, Im pretty sure he says to raise bigger OOP and smaller in position. It has been awhile since I read NLHETAP though so I could be off.

It's funny you say that because in my session review for you I saw you opened 3xBB OOP and said to raise bigger.
11-28-2006, 06:44 PM
andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

No, Im pretty sure he says to raise bigger OOP and smaller in position. It has been awhile since I read NLHETAP though so I could be off.

It's funny you say that because in my session review for you I saw you opened 3xBB OOP and said to raise bigger.

I still have to finish yours. That surprises me though because I sent you a session from full tilt where PF I use the pot button no matter my position, maybe in one of the hands there wasnt a SB or something because I dont vary my PF raises based on position.
11-28-2006, 08:30 PM
UG

Hand one -- For a small reraise like that I'm calling more than I'm folding preflop, though I wouldn't hate a fold here either. I'm calling on the river just about every time as you'll see QQ/KK a bunch here.

Hand two: I don't see how you're good here, unless you had a read that this guy thought TPTK was the nuts, or something. I can't see it being an overpair but 2-pair/set is likely here...or a random 8x hand, I guess, but I don't see 8x playing it like this with all of the min-raising. Can you explain your thinking in this hand a little more?

Hand Three: I like. Your opponent probably has a hand that's not great but beats 22 here a lot. You can fire another bullet repping QQQ, and you might take it down...but there's no guarentee that you will. Sometimes I'll bet again on the turn, sometimes I'll check it down like you did. Depends on how frisky I'm feeling, how the table (and this particular player) have been playing, etc.
11-28-2006, 09:27 PM
elipsesjeff

Well, in hand 2 I was hoping that reraising would somehow give me information to make me play better. Like having him push over the top so I can fold or him calling. I don't really know much else from mind but I think it was something along those lines.
11-28-2006, 10:29 PM
vegascoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

Also, why a 3xBB open?

He's UTG in both the hands he opened and I convinced him to try my openers.

Kind of the opposite of Sklansky? Raise small OOP to keep the pot down and bigger in LP to create a bigger pot?

I didn't get that from T&P but Harrington definitely advocated raising more in EP. Seems like it makes more sense for tourney play or shorter stack situations.
11-28-2006, 10:48 PM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate George

I'm calling on the river just about every time as you'll see QQ/KK a bunch here.

I call too, but it might be a mistake against most of the field. The river 1.5pot bet with a nut-like hand is pretty classic PokerStars play. Bluffs tend to range from pot to half pot in range with the occasional donk shove.
11-28-2006, 10:58 PM
Pelion

It seems like 2 conflicting principles to me and theyere probably worthy of a whole knew thread.

UTG

a) Raise big = Reduced implied odds + hopefully reduced number of villains OOP = goot
b) Raise big = big pot OOP = ewwwww

LP

a) Raise big = big pot in position = naice
b) Raise small = let players in when you have a nice hand + position = ....naice.

Ok so whats it to be? Or is this one of those moments in poker where we cant win? The early position guideliness seem espectially confuddled to me and Ive never been able to balence them myself.