Totally lost with AA.

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12-02-2006, 02:42 PM
Pelion

Totally lost with AA.

Ok the converter is being weird so ill just explain.

Crypto £20 6max. Villain is 28/5.9/1.8 after 200 hands. No specific reads other than that. He has £21 and I cover.

I raise to 4x with AA UTG. Villain calls in CO along with 3 others. Flop comes 4 T 6 rainbow with a £5 pot. I bet £3.50 and Villain pretty much instapushes. Everyone folds.
Its £16.60 to call into a pot of £28.60. What do I do?

Id pretty much instacall on a draw heavy board but Im stumped here. Oh one more thing. Ive been checking missed flops here almost 100% of the time... but I dont know if hes paying attention.
12-02-2006, 02:55 PM
LeFou

You call. I don't think there's *anything to think about.

Edit: I prolly overstated that. This looks like a routine call, though.
12-02-2006, 03:08 PM
Reidak

Call
12-02-2006, 03:15 PM
Lukie

I beat him into the pot here. Make sure you spike an ace on the river though for good measure. Avoid a 5 or 9 just in case he makes what would really be an excellent push with the double gutter.
12-02-2006, 04:55 PM
nutsinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

I beat him into the pot here. Make sure you spike an ace on the river though for good measure. Avoid a 5 or 9 just in case he makes what would really be an excellent push with the double gutter.

How would this be an excellent push if calling with an overpair is routine and hero just bet heavy into a field of 4 opponents? Hidden draw+position=high implied odds=call
12-02-2006, 05:43 PM
Pelion

ok this seems to be an instacall from what people are saying? What do we actually think he usually has? Overpair?
12-02-2006, 05:44 PM
Renton

pelion, don't be a silly goose
12-02-2006, 05:49 PM
Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

pelion, don't be a silly goose

thats not helpful...

edit: I really cant think of anything that would play this way so im finding it hard to put him on any range either of hands I beat or that beat me. Id rather people told me their thought processes in why they think its a call rather than just saying call. I folded by the way but I wasnt happy about it.
12-02-2006, 05:53 PM
jackvance

Believe it or not but you're often beat here by a set too..
12-02-2006, 05:55 PM
Eric

Like they say about aces...you win a lot of little pots but lose some big ones.
12-02-2006, 06:03 PM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

I beat him into the pot here. Make sure you spike an ace on the river though for good measure. Avoid a 5 or 9 just in case he makes what would really be an excellent push with the double gutter.

How would this be an excellent push if calling with an overpair is routine and hero just bet heavy into a field of 4 opponents? Hidden draw+position=high implied odds=call

normally I'd agree, my point was that if we can get AA (and presumably all worse hands) to fold here as the post-flop better is suggesting, then it's quite an awesome push.

That said, I'd call with AA here but would probably muck JJ.

Against the right opponent, I could find a fold with AA here but it's just such a weird line for a set (and maybe a good one because of that) and there are a lot of other hands that many players could have here, IMO.
12-02-2006, 09:46 PM
nutsinho

yeah, its a fucking great line for a set. Guy did it to me yesterday, I raise in ep and get two callers. I lead 3/4 with AA on Q73 two-tone flop, 1st caller shoves for 100bb, I instacall thinking thanks for the dough, he shows QQ... i felt like i hadnt been owned like that in months.
12-02-2006, 09:48 PM
nutsinho

I should add, though, that I feel the call with AA on Q73 two-tone is trivially easy while the call on T64 rainbow flop is at least somewhat debatable.
12-02-2006, 11:07 PM
mcatdog

Hello 64s.
12-02-2006, 11:20 PM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsinho

yeah, its a fucking great line for a set. Guy did it to me yesterday, I raise in ep and get two callers. I lead 3/4 with AA on Q73 two-tone flop, 1st caller shoves for 100bb, I instacall thinking thanks for the dough, he shows QQ... i felt like i hadnt been owned like that in months.

no, its a horrible line and here's why.

There's no way for him to put you on a hand as strong as you have. This strongarm play simply makes the villain play the most optimally with the lower hands in his range, like top pair and not so strong of a kicker and weaker overpairs, which would have normally given you some money on the turn and river had you used a less robust line.
12-03-2006, 06:29 AM
Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

Like they say about aces...you win a lot of little pots but lose some big ones.

Worst advice ever. I love repeating this little turd at the cardroom and amuse myself with their acceptence of this as gospel.

Every time I've gotten all of the money in with AA in 6 max since moving up to 200NL I've had the best hand.

Re: The original post, I'd look him up here simply because so many worse hands play like this. Even if he's got a set, you can re-suck.
12-03-2006, 08:23 AM
Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Re: The original post, I'd look him up here simply because so many worse hands play like this.

People keep saying this but I still have no idea which hands you are talking about. What worse hands play like this on a board this dry?
12-03-2006, 09:48 AM
Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Re: The original post, I'd look him up here simply because so many worse hands play like this.

People keep saying this but I still have no idea which hands you are talking about. What worse hands play like this on a board this dry?

if you honestly think that this player can't have anything but a set (or 2 pair like 46s) every time, then fold.

do you really think this can't ever be JJ-KK/Tx/87/cute-humerous holdings that only an NL20 player could come up with/etc.? If so, I wouldn't agree but it is your hand to lose. :)
12-03-2006, 11:52 AM
biondino

I lived at £25NL for a very long time and I reckon you're beat 2/3 of the time. But you are getting 2:1 odds. I honestly think you can call or fold and you'll be good either way.
12-03-2006, 08:10 PM
Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

do you really think this can't ever be JJ-KK/Tx/87/cute-humerous holdings that only an NL20 player could come up with/etc.? If so, I wouldn't agree but it is your hand to lose. :)

Im not arguing with anyone. Im just asking people to be specific because I really have no idea what people play like this. Its a line ive seen maybe twice before ever. If you think im good often enough then Ill start calling here and figure it out from there.
12-03-2006, 08:35 PM
Anosmic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

Im not arguing with anyone. Im just asking people to be specific because I really have no idea what people play like this. Its a line ive seen maybe twice before ever. If you think im good often enough then Ill start calling here and figure it out from there.

If villain has hit something like 2p+ then he's played this really badly. On a board that dry he's got very good odds of getting a lot more out of you.

What's he going to put you on? There's a rather low chance that you've hit a set here (are you raising all PPs UTG?) , but the likelihood here is that you're on two overs or an overpair.

If he believes that you'll almost always fold your overs and even a number of overpairs then his push is probably +EV.

You have to call this, I'd say, because there's every chance you're ahead but even if you're not if your opponents get the idea that you'll fold anything but absolute monsters to aggression then you're probably not going to be winning any more pots on that table.
12-04-2006, 06:12 AM
biondino

FYI I saw this identical line run the other day and it was two pair. I happened to have a better two pair and stacked the motherfucker (though I did fear the bottom set).