Operation "learn" 6-max

Seems like doing an operation is a current trend, so I figure I'd do one myself. Up until now I've been playing full ring almost exclusively. Right now I'm playing 200NL full ring and am slightly winning, running at ~2ptBB/100 for the last ~30k hands.

My goal for this operation is to play 10k hands at 200NL 6-max before christmas and be a winning player over that sample. I have a big enough poker-only bankroll to easily sustain dropping 10 buyins without needing to move down. I'll also whore some bonuses and play only on sites where I get rakeback to minimize my learning fee. Because of this I will be hopefully be able to keep my mind off the money aspect of things and just play some solid poker.

I will post daily updates in this thread, along with the big hands from each session.

Hey, good luck with your progress. looking forward to this thread as I have similar ambitions further down the road.

Did you change your PT rules to 6max??? It' makes a difference. here's the site.

http://www.andymcnish.btinternet.co.uk/newauto.htm

Here's the rules.

http://www.pokertracker.com/6maxFinal.zip

Meh, I quit using auto rate rules a couple of months ago. I found myself making plays on someone based on their symbol rather than making them based on their stats. These days I just keep the most important stats on the table.

Appriciate your effort, though :)

Trainer, thanks for that! I have just started using Poker Tracker - it is GREAT - (some time till I play 200NL) and wanted exactly that. Guide for tracker I downloaded is for limit so I really needed this for no limit (full ring and 6max). GL, HalvSame with your operation. Great link, thanks!

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Hey, good luck with your progress.

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GL, HalvSame with your operation.

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Thanx mates, I'll need it :)

Day 1
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6389/statvx6.jpg
Not a very good start. Only flopped two sets, both in raised pots, and only got paid for one of them by a half-stack. Never got stacked, but lost a huge amount of medium sized pots after trying to make too many plays postflop. Also made a couple of read-based river calls on too weak reads.

Some random observations compared to full ring;
* cbets OOP are not folded to very often at all.
* most flops seem to be heads up.
* TPTK and overpairs can be showed down in big pots against a whole lot of villains.
* villains seem surprisingly passive postflop.
* most villains' reraise ranges seem too tight.

In good news, I finished a 150$ bonus on InterPoker.
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UTG: $290.25
UTG+1: $182.75
Hero: $204.50
Button: $225.25
SB: $480
BB: $196.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with J:club: J:diamond:
2 folds, Hero raises to $7, 2 folds, BB raises to $21, Hero calls.

Flop: 8:club: T:diamond: 2:heart: ($43, 2 players)
BB bets $30, Hero raises to $70, BB raises all-in $175.75, Hero folds.

I figured him to have AK often enough to try and take this pot away with a small raise on the flop. I should probably just 4-bet preflop if I'm going to lay down after this flop action, right?

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UTG: $264.75
Hero: $257.25
Button: $172
SB: $205.75
BB: $214.25

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with K:heart: A:spade:
UTG raises to $8, Hero calls, 3 folds.

Flop: 9:heart: 5:heart: 8:heart: ($19, 2 players)
UTG bets $16, Hero calls.

Turn: 8:club: ($51, 2 players)
UTG bets $24, Hero raises to $75, UTG raises to $150, Hero folds.

I've been reraising him alot preflop so I decided to see a flop this time. Postflop this is probably the most horrible hand ever played.
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Tomorrow I'll be back with a clear mind and without suffering from Fancy Play Syndrome. Also I'm gonna practice better table selection.

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Originally Posted by HalvSame

Never got stacked, but lost a huge amount of medium sized pots after trying to make too many plays postflop. Also made a couple of read-based river calls on too weak reads.

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This is by far my biggest leak. The past couple days I haven't lost any real big pots, but lost a million small-medium ones and they sure do add up fast. Sometimes people like to end posts like this with something witty or with advice, but I'll just say GL because you couldn't go far with anything I would say! :lol:

Good luck mate. I remember switching to 6max and how it hurt, so I sympathise. But then I didn't have the luxury of such a BR cushion.

BTW have you considered dropping down to say $100NL while you learn? The play is slightly easier and if you're going to be dropping a buy-in or two you could at least drop them to me :D

As for the hands I think I'd probably want to be 3-betting most often with JJ in position. If he calls I'd usually feel okay with pushing that flop.

AK hand. I'm not sure about the turn re-raise, of course. But I'm even less certain about the fold. I mean you're getting good odds, are you THAT certain he has the Ah or a boat often enough to justify the fold?

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Originally Posted by Anosmic

BTW have you considered dropping down to say $100NL while you learn? The play is slightly easier and if you're going to be dropping a buy-in or two you could at least drop them to me :D

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I have considered it, but for now I just decided against it. :dance:

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As for the hands I think I'd probably want to be 3-betting most often with JJ in position. If he calls I'd usually feel okay with pushing that flop.

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I agree.

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AK hand. I'm not sure about the turn re-raise, of course. But I'm even less certain about the fold. I mean you're getting good odds, are you THAT certain he has the Ah or a boat often enough to justify the fold?

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I think the re-raise is bad and the fold probably worse. I don't have any idea what I was thinking.
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Day 2 (Stats are for day 1 and 2 combined)
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/927/statdb9.jpg
Did ok today, getting paid on a couple of big hands and not getting into too much trouble. Found myself thinking "he's playing back at me" on a few occasions and overplayed some hands due to this. Lost a stack with AKs in a reraised pot, raising the flop with a flush-draw + overs and subsequentally finding that I created artificial odds to call against his AA/KK when he pushed. I'll post that hand tomorrow, seems like the neildewhurst converter is down at the moment.

As in full ring, I think my 6-max preflop game is pretty much where I want it to be. Now, if only post-flop play was just as simple...

Todays observation; 6-max is _very_ much more stressful for me than full ring. I was hoping to add a couple more tables soon (playing 4 now, vs 6 at full ring), but I'm gonna stay at 4 for at least 10k hands.

Excellent day today. Got back on party to clear a bonus and check out the games, and found a supertard donkey. Worst player I've ever seen, 96/50 and a total calling station postflop. I took ~650$ off of him on 200NL 6-max myself, and he donated at least 600$ more while I was at the table. He then went up to 1000NL and sat down short stacked, and me and a couple of other guys from the 200NL table followed him up there.

I played a total of 10 hands up there before busting him for 200$ more (one of the others took 600$ off him the hand before). Playing that high was scary as hell, but I was very determined to stay out of the way when the regulars were in the pot. Luckily no such occasions occured. High risk and not reeeeally high reward, but it was fun. Kinda cool to see 72.06 ptBB/100 @ 1000NL in poker tracker, lol.

I'll be back with a report on my 200NL play later, right now I'm taking a break. I'm on positive tilt :D.

Day 3 (and a half?)
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2201/statyh8.jpg
Very good day/last night (my days are blurring into each other due to a very strange sleeping pattern). Got back on party and took that one donkey for three and a half stacks - for a while I actually believed he was chip-dumping to one of the other players but then why wouldnt he tighten up when we were in heads up pots? I'm not gonna post any hands from that session, basically I just tried to see as many pots as possible with any two and just call him down if I hit or had an ace, and raise for value with TPMK and better.

Here are some hands from the other tables. Assume no read and an aggressive hero image (if there were any reads at the time I don't remember them now :P )
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UTG: $313.36
CO: $196
Hero: $206.75
SB: $234.50
BB: $59.75

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with Q:diamond: A:spade:
2 folds, Hero raises to $7, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: K:spade: A:club: J:heart: ($21, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 6:spade: ($21, 3 players)
SB bets $12, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: 6:heart: ($45, 2 players)
SB bets $34, Hero calls.

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UTG: $197
UTG+1: $265
CO: $62
Button: $410.84
Hero: $198
BB: $160

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with K:club: K:diamond:
3 folds, Button raises to $6, Hero raises to $22, BB folds, Button calls.

Flop: 2:club: Q:club: 9:club: ($46, 2 players)
Hero bets $30, Button raises all-in $388.84, Hero calls all-in $146.
I just don't know what these overbets mean, he basically insta-pushed. If I didn't have the K:club: I'd be puking even more.
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UTG: $178.50
UTG+1: $199
CO: $278.44
Button: $92.70
Hero: $200
BB: $158

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with K:spade: 5:spade:
4 folds, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop: T:spade: 6:spade: 3:spade: ($4, 2 players)
Hero bets $4, BB calls.

Turn: T:heart: ($12, 2 players)
Hero bets $10, BB calls.

River: 6:club: ($32, 2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $30, Hero calls.

Worst river call known to man? Here's what you get for not paying attention you fracking donkey.
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UTG: $256.19
Hero: $196
Button: $135.25
SB: $435.35
BB: $236.25

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with 2:club: A:club:
UTG folds, Hero raises to $7, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 3:diamond: A:spade: Q:diamond: ($28, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $22, Button folds, SB raises to $44, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: A:diamond: ($116, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: 2:heart: ($116, 2 players)
SB bets $40, Hero raises all-in $145
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UTG: $299.20
Hero: $225.35
SB: $172.25
BB: $51.15

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is Button with 6:club: 7:heart:
UTG raises to $8, Hero raises to $24, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: K:spade: T:heart: 5:heart: ($51, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $35, UTG calls.

Turn: 7:diamond: ($121, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: 4:club: ($121, 2 players)
UTG bets $88, Hero folds.

An example of me spewing too much with positional aggression.

Day 8
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8974/statyv6.jpg

I feel like my game is improving every session, obviously a good thing. I tried playing 6 tables like I do in full ring, but found myself a bit overwhelmed and not thinking through decisions enough. So I cut back to 4 tables, seems to be working great at the moment. Obviously my winrate is not great by any means, but for now I'm still "finding myself" at 6-max.

I'm _really_ enjoying it too, I suspect that I will never go back to playing FR full time (strike that, I'm going to try out 400NL FR in january, but when I'm somewhat comfortable with the stakes I think I'll go 6-max).

I'm not posting any hands today, exams tomorrow :D

Observations:
- inducing bluffs is goot
- pot control is goot
- checking behind turn to induce a bluff on the river while maintaining pot control at the same time is goot

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Originally Posted by HalvSame

UTG: $290.25
UTG+1: $182.75
Hero: $204.50
Button: $225.25
SB: $480
BB: $196.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with J:club: J:diamond:
2 folds, Hero raises to $7, 2 folds, BB raises to $21, Hero calls.

Flop: 8:club: T:diamond: 2:heart: ($43, 2 players)
BB bets $30, Hero raises to $70, BB raises all-in $175.75, Hero folds.

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I fold the flop or call, but never raise here.

6-max is fun. Good luck neighbour ;)

I'm enjoying this thread HalvSame. Keep it up and GL!

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Originally Posted by HalvSame

Day 3 (and a half?)
[img]UTG: $178.50
UTG+1: $199
CO: $278.44
Button: $92.70
Hero: $200
BB: $158

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with K 5
4 folds, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop: T 6 3 ($4, 2 players)
Hero bets $4, BB calls.

Turn: T ($12, 2 players)
Hero bets $10, BB calls.

River: 6 ($32, 2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $30, Hero calls.

Worst river call known to man? Here's what you get for not paying attention you fracking donkey.

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haha its alright we all have momentary lapses in reason...would have probably played the rest of the hand the same way, maybe a bigger bet off the flop, you gotta think of your expectation, i know you may scare him out of the hand but say you bet 50 and expect him to call 10 percent of the time your expectation is high enough to justify a larger bet

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Originally Posted by HalvSame

Day 3 (and a half?)
[img]UTG: $178.50
UTG+1: $199
CO: $278.44
Button: $92.70
Hero: $200
BB: $158

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with K 5
4 folds, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop: T 6 3 ($4, 2 players)
Hero bets $4, BB calls.

Turn: T ($12, 2 players)
Hero bets $10, BB calls.

River: 6 ($32, 2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $30, Hero calls.

Worst river call known to man? Here's what you get for not paying attention you fracking donkey.

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haha its alright we all have momentary lapses in reason...would have probably played the rest of the hand the same way, maybe a bigger bet off the flop, you gotta think of your expectation, i know you may scare him out of the hand but say you bet 50 and expect him to call 10 percent of the time your expectation is high enough to justify a larger bet

Ive now been playing 6m for about a month, but had a 2-week vacation in the middle. Anyways, I'm really comfortable with the game now. I don't know how I'm running, because I don't have PT or my bankroll spreadsheet on the computer I've been playing on for the past few weeks. I know I'm up a bit, but the sample size is probably not big enough to say anything conclusive.

I'm still playing 4 tables, but I'm going to add 2 more (and perhaps 4 eventually) when I get back to my desktop computer. I'm on a 12" widescreen laptop at the moment so I can only comfortably play 4 resized tables.

I think I'm becoming a LAGgier player, which is both more fun/challenging and more profitable (or so I hear, waaaay too early for me to say though). I've also been playing without a HUD for a while. I don't really make any big reads, but I must say I think my postflop hand reading has gotten better from it. I don't know if I will go back to using one when I get back to my real setup. If I do I will be more careful with making "read based" plays. A stat is not a read, children!

I'm not going to keep updating this thread, save for perhaps a screenshot of results when I get back on my main computer. I might decide to get one of those proper blog thingies going, but for now this is it. Thanks for reading and for the support, everyone!

you are playing on prima arent you?

I am at the moment, but I'm gonna get back on Party hopefully this weekend. I've been playing most of my FR hands on Full Tilt though.

Why? Have you spotted me donking away at the tables on Prima? :D

my alias on prima is chodeface.

Ah, well in that case I do believe we have tangled a bit :D.

yes lol, sorry i cant chat at the tables, i got my chat banned :S

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Originally Posted by HalvSame

A stat is not a read, children!!

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wow truer words never spoken...ive found this one out the hard way

Okay, here are the final stats and graph of the operation:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9...tcustomyt1.jpg

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/8...hcustomck9.jpg

Obviously I'm very happy with the end result. My bankroll is now 17.5k, but I'm going to cash out 1200$ just because I want to be able to show something for my poker playing. I'm gonna get a new cell phone and a second 20" monitor. I might have a go at 8 tabling in the future, but for now I'm going to move up to 400NL and play 4. I'm gonna add 2 more tables before long, I can play 6 tables of full ring without problems and I feel I can get used to doing the same at 6max.

Thanks again for the support. Peace.

You should change the title of this thread to: Operation "PWN" 6-max. Congrats!