Is my boat good?....

Hey guys,

Just wanted some help on this hand I played tonight.

Villain is 23/12/1.41

I'm looking for some postflop help, ignoring my preflop call which some of you may disagree with.

On the turn, I put villain on a few potential hands that may beat me (A2, 67, pocket 5's) so I flat call for pot control, looking for a cheap showdown (maybe this is bad?) By the river, I beat his straights, but I'm still behind pocket 5's, 45. Is there any value in raising? Any worse hand folds, any 4 I gain no value and any better hand will likely stack me. Villain's lead doesn't seem too worried about the board pairing...

Flat call the river, or raise? Sorry if this hand is a no-brainer to some of you!

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.5/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $75.66
CO: $130.25
Button: $81
Hero: $147.75
BB: $90.50

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with :4s: :6s:
UTG raises to $3, CO calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop: :3h: :4d: :4c: ($10, 3 players)
UTG checks, CO checks, Hero bets $4.75, UTG calls, CO calls.

Turn: :5h: ($24.25, 3 players)
UTG checks, CO bets $7, Hero calls, UTG folds.

River: :3d: ($38.25, 2 players)
CO bets $20, Hero ??

Bet more on the flop, raise the weak-ass turn bet. I call the river (doesn't make it the right answer).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by swiggidy

Bet more on the flop, raise the weak-ass turn bet. I call the river (doesn't make it the right answer).

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Yah I agree I should have bet more on the flop.

Given my read, that I was likely behind on the turn but that I certianly had showdown value, you still think this calls for a turn raise? I can't see many hands I beat here calling a raise, and if he is beat then I should just let him hang himself?

The only hand I see that is behind and calling a raise might be x6, with the OESD and is putting out a block bet for a cheap look at the river.

Betting half the pot on the flop is fine. I see no reason to scare away small pairs with a pot-sized bet.

Raise the turn, raise the river.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by griffey24

Given my read, that I was likely behind on the turn but that I certianly had showdown value, you still think this calls for a turn raise? I can't see many hands I beat here calling a raise, and if he is beat then I should just let him hang himself?

The only hand I see that is behind and calling a raise might be x6, with the OESD and is putting out a block bet for a cheap look at the river.

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I'm not sure how many hands your stats are from, but 23/12. The 12 is fairly tight. Does it really make sense that he raised A2s, 45, or 67 from UTG?

On the turn, I think you're right it's a blocking bet, I'm thinking AKs is much more likely, or even a high pp that may now be worried about flush/cheap showdown. 55 (and 33) is possible, but I wouldn't be too worried.

On the river that big bet doesn't make sense with the way the hand was played. Unless it's another blocking bet/pricing the showdown...

Maybe a raise to $60 and folding to a push? I'm not sure if he could lay down AA/KK here. If you had bet the turn this would easily be just a call, as played I think you're loosing value by just calling.

{EDIT: FWIW, I was thinking $7-8 on the flop}

I think you should be more aggressive on every street. 3/4 the flop. If Villain had you beat on the turn, he's betting at least 1/2 pot to try to build it up. His bet is so feeble and you let him get to the river way too cheap. On the river, only pocket 5's beats you and like I said, he's not betting that low on the turn if he has them...that is unless you have been ultra-aggressive and have shown you will raise bets like this (or he's a dumb). On the river, I'm pumping this up as high as I think he'll go - he's betting higher w/ the nuts. If the bets went the way I wanted on the flop and turn, we're playing for stacks. I might even push over as played anyway. I'm amazed at how many times a straight calls. A lower boat calls every time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by swiggidy

I'm not sure how many hands your stats are from, but 23/12. The 12 is fairly tight. Does it really make sense that he raised A2s, 45, or 67 from UTG?

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Sorry, my mistake. When I referred to "villain" I actually meant CO who continued on past the turn was 23/12, and not the UTG raiser.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by r8ed

If Villain had you beat on the turn, he's betting at least 1/2 pot to try to build it up. His bet is so feeble and you let him get to the river way too cheap. On the river, only pocket 5's beats you and like I said, he's not betting that low on the turn if he has them...that is unless you have been ultra-aggressive and have shown you will raise bets like this (or he's a dumb)

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Yah, I kind of felt as though this lead on the turn was so small that he was trying to induce a raise.

When villain lead out $20 on the river, for some reason I had something in my head screaming at me.. telling me he had pocket 5's. I just had some feeling.. but alas.. I ignored it and raised him to $55. He pushed over and I called. Villain shows.... vomit... pocket 5's

Clearly I know that in the long run, raising this river is +EV. But do any of you ever go against the "long run +EV move" with these "feelings" that have no real basis.. other than "just a feeling"?

call me crazy but I'm trying my hardest to felt this hand every time.

How could your boat not be good here? I mean, come on. Think about the range of hands that would bet like that - it includes much more than 33 and 55.

Yeah, I really couldn't believe some of the posts in this thread.

If dude has 33 or 55 then I'm giving dude all of my chips here.

I'll always go broke here. Except if I get that sickly feeling you were talking about then I might just call. But even if I get that feeling I usually talk myself into raising anyway.

Actually, I would generally go broke on the turn here. You have trips and boat and straight outs. If I could hijack for a moment does anyone think that's a bad play on my part?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galapogos

Actually, I would generally go broke on the turn here. You have trips and boat and straight outs. If I could hijack for a moment does anyone think that's a bad play on my part?

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I would like to get more in on the turn as well - however, I think most of the time that little bet is air/55/straight so raising is terrible. Some times it's a draw, or a very paranoid overpair (i.e., one so paranoid, it might fold if you raise!).

Maybe min/raise.

Ummmm...

This is really easy, you have to get all your monies in. Everytime.

Thanks for all the replies guys!

I appreciate the feedback. I guess I just second guessed myself for a moment.. cause after the hand I said to the guy "nice turn".. and he said "nice river raise, genius" ... and then I laughed and asked "you're flat calling 4's full of 3's there?? " and he didn't respond..

But yes.. I agree.. my river raise was the right play in the long run. Variance just smacked me up a bit..

Thanks for the help!