I suck at this.

Alright. I suck at poker. I dont know why. Here is every hand from todays session thats better than 3 of a kind. Yes there are bad beats in here. Ignore them, and find the ones where I play bad. Yes there are some standard hands in here (god, I hope there are atleast SOME). Ignore them, find what is making me lose.

Be obscenely brutally honest, because if I dont fix whats wrong fast, I'll be bust-o-matic.

Its 15 total hands.

Thanks
Euph


******* Hand 1 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
4 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is SB with 5:diamond: 5:club:
UTG raises to $2, Button folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: K:spade: 5:spade: 6:club: ($6, 3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks.

Turn: 8:spade: ($6, 3 players)
Hero bets $3, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: 7:heart: ($15, 3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks.

Results:
Final pot: $15


******* Hand 2 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with Q:diamond: T:diamond:
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop: Q:club: Q:spade: 6:diamond: ($1.5, 3 players)
Hero bets $1, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: A:club: ($3.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2, Hero calls.

River: 3:heart: ($7.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $5, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $17.5


******* Hand 3 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with Q:spade: 5:spade:
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 8:club: 6:spade: K:spade: ($2, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.5, 2 folds, SB calls.

Turn: K:club: ($5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: K:diamond: ($5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Results:
Final pot: $5


******* Hand 4 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with J:heart: Q:heart:
UTG folds, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, SB raises to $6, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: J:club: K:heart: J:spade: ($12.5, 2 players)
SB bets $9, Hero raises to $20, SB calls.

Turn: 6:spade: ($52.5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: 5:diamond: ($52.5, 2 players)
SB is all-in $21.45, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $95.4


******* Hand 5 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with 7:heart: 8:heart:
UTG calls, CO folds, Button raises to $2.5, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 4:club: 5:diamond: 6:club: ($8, 3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.5, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: K:club: ($11, 2 players)
Hero bets $5, UTG raises to $10, Hero calls.

River: 9:club: ($31, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $10, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $51


******* Hand 6 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with T:heart: 8:heart:
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO (poster) checks, Hero calls, SB calls, BB (poster) checks.

Flop: 6:diamond: 9:heart: 7:spade: ($2.5, 5 players)
SB bets $1, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises to $3, SB raises to $8, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: 5:spade: ($19.5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: 3:club: ($19.5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8, SB calls.

Results:
Final pot: $35.5


******* Hand 7 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with J:spade: A:heart:
UTG calls, CO folds, Button raises to $1.5, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: 3:heart: T:spade: Q:heart: ($6, 4 players)
Hero bets $4, 2 folds, Button raises all-in $8.9, Hero calls.

Turn: 9:spade: ($23.8, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $23.8)


River: K:spade: ($23.8, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $23.8)


Results:
Final pot: $23.8


******* Hand 8 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 7:heart: 8:heart:
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Hero raises to $2.5, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: 6:spade: J:diamond: 4:heart: ($5.75, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $3, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: 3:diamond: ($11.75, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

River: 5:diamond: ($11.75, 2 players)
UTG+1 bets $5, Hero raises all-in $17.35, UTG+1 calls.

Results:
Final pot: $46.45


******* Hand 9 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with A:spade: T:spade:
UTG raises to $2, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, 2 folds.

Flop: T:club: 4:diamond: 3:spade: ($6.75, 3 players)
UTG checks, CO bets $4, Hero raises to $12, UTG folds, CO calls.

Turn: 2:diamond: ($30.75, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks.

River: 5:spade: ($30.75, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $12, CO raises to $24, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $78.75


******* Hand 10 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with K:heart: T:diamond:
UTG folds, Hero raises to $2, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 5:club: A:heart: T:heart: ($6.25, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $1.5, BB folds, Hero raises to $6, Button calls.

Turn: 4:heart: ($18.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: 3:heart: ($18.25, 2 players)
Hero bets $9, Button calls.

Results:
Final pot: $36.25


******* Hand 11 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with A:heart: 4:heart:
2 folds, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: 4:diamond: T:heart: 5:heart: ($4.25, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $3, BB raises all-in $9.2, Hero calls.

Turn: J:heart: ($22.65, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $22.65)


River: 3:spade: ($22.65, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $22.65)


Results:
Final pot: $22.65


******* Hand 12 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with 6:diamond: 2:diamond:
3 folds, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 9:diamond: J:diamond: Q:heart: ($1, 2 players)
SB bets $1.5, Hero calls.

Turn: 8:diamond: ($4, 2 players)
SB bets $1.5, Hero raises to $4, SB calls.

River: Q:diamond: ($12, 2 players)
SB bets $4, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $20


******* Hand 13 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with 9:club: Q:club:
UTG calls, Hero raises to $2.5, 4 folds, UTG raises to $4.5, Hero calls.

Flop: 5:spade: 6:club: 3:club: ($9.75, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 3:spade: ($9.75, 2 players)
UTG bets $2, Hero calls.

River: J:club: ($13.75, 2 players)
UTG bets $5, Hero raises to $10, UTG raises all-in $46.2, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $106.15


******* Hand 14 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with T:spade: K:spade:
UTG calls, Hero raises to $2.5, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG folds.

Flop: 8:club: K:heart: K:diamond: ($8.25, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, CO folds, BB calls.

Turn: 3:spade: ($16.25, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: T:diamond: ($16.25, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB calls.

Results:
Final pot: $24.25


******* Hand 15 ********

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 9:diamond: J:heart:
2 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: J:diamond: 3:spade: K:spade: ($1.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: 9:heart: ($1.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

River: 9:club: ($1.25, 2 players)
Hero bets $1, CO calls.

Results:
Final pot: $3.25

Beatting NL100 and above on PokerStars for a good clip is mostly about hands that don't go to showdown.

I take that back, WTF are you doing missing so many bets. If you have a good hand, stick it in there!

Hand 1: It happens.
Hand 2: It's fine I guess unless he's retarded. If he's retarded you have really easy turn + river bets.
Hand 3: Meh, if he's loose/passive it's a really easy turn bet.
Hand 4: Stick it in on the turn.
Hand 5: Go to war on the flop. The river call is retarded.
Hand 6: Not re-raising the flop is bad, checking the turn behind is pissing away a fortune.
Hand 7: Standard short-buy GAMB00L
Hand 8: For what it's worth, I would seriously consider a limp here depending on what I think of UTG+1
Hand 9: I often fold the flop without a read. CO has at least Tx here almost always.
Hand 10: Just bet the fucking flop.
Hand 11: Routine GAMB00L
Hand 12: SB seems retarded enough I'm tempted to look that up too. I still don't think it's a great river call.
Hand 13: This hand playeys out a lot easier when you bet the flop. As played I'm temped to fold the river. You're only beating a really retarded player with backwards Aces.
Hand 14: Bet turn for value.
Hand 15: Bet turn for value.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fnord

Betting NL100 and above on PokerStars for a good clip is mostly about hands that don't go to showdown.

I take that back, WTF are you doing missing so many bets. If you have a good hand, stick it in there!

---

Thats what im thinking. You need to be more aggressive post-flop.

My god, please start betting the turn when you're most likely ahead! For two reasons: prevent draws hitting and BECAUSE YOU'RE PROBABLY AHEAD. Most players are not going to catch up here, and most players will have marginal hands (unless they've already re-raised).

Also, start folding trips when obvious 4-to-the-board hit, and start folding baby flushes when 4-flushes hit and they bet. I think you could also have folded the Q-high flush on a paired board when he pushed over the top of you, but I am a bit weak.

Checks from these players usually means weakness. So bet at them. The hand that makes me feel ill is when you flop your straight, and get three-bet on the flop, and not only don't you 4-bet here but you check the lovely, sexy turn. Wtf?

Thank you so much fnord. I have a few questions.

My perpetual nagging of "Who calls?" is making me do what I did on these:
#4
#6 (a little. I didnt think -anyone- called a turn bet. Missed tons of value on the flop, I see.)
#8 (I was really tempted to just call on the river. I felt like only the flush would call a reraise.)
#14 (how much do you bet on turn?)
#15

So, really, who calls? I often feel like my hand is just so fucking transparent to anyone with half a clue that I dont understand how ANYONE makes money at NL ring without an incredibly LAG image (which I did very well with until variance kicked me in the croutons). Its so farking obvious what I have in the hands listed above when I, nor anyone else at the table, has been out of line, that I just dont ever, ever, ever see getting paid off on these kinds of hands.


Others...
#9 I dont understand a flop fold.
#10 Is c-betting into this many people OK?
#13 why are we betting this flop? In my view we're 30% to hit putting in 50% of the money and villains feigning weakness. On the river I freeze up, dial my priest and ask him to pray for me, walk around in circles for 20 minutes, kick the dog, pop a valium, and call. Then I call the priest back and tell him to go fuck himself, his god is a conniving dick.

A wise man once said that enlightenment can come from devotion to the master.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

A wise man once said that enlightenment can come from devotion to the master.

---

If you see Budah on the road, KILL HIM!

man that's a lot of hands. some of the bigger changes I make..

1- usually just lead out and hope the pfr raises, hopefully trapping the other guy in the middle. then call or 3bet. as played it's not bad, maybe bet the turn more.

2- block bet the river strongly. hopefully he has an A or worse Q and pays off. I don't think a worse hand will raise either. you're line isn't bad if you think he mostly is bluffing though.

5 - without any reads or deep stacks I just dump it pre oop. as played, I would usually lead out, sometimes check/raise the flop. basically get money in while people aren't scared and u got the goods. turn is ok, but easy river fold.

6 what happened? you got someone saying they want to get stacked and u got the nuts! just keep betting like 2/3 to full pot. I can't see a reason to slow play.

8- reload or just limp in unless you have reads they are weak post flop. otherwise it's good.

10- lead or c/f flop. I'm not a fan of c/r oop with crap hands, no read.

alright I'm tired now...you prob realize I mostly play straightforward, just building pots and following through on the big money streets if I got the goods (or good reads). otherwise keep the pot small and put people on strong hands when they bet the river unless of course you have good reads or whatnot. this seems to work good at 100nl at least. anyway gl

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by euphoricism

My perpetual nagging of "Who calls?" is making me do what I did on these

---

When you have a really strong hand, dare your opponents to call you down because they will surprise you quite often or fail that get tired of you slapping them around. This is why I never show, it leaves the seed of doubt in their head.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by euphoricism

#9 I dont understand a flop fold.

---

It's a weak fold made early/cheap in the hand. Sometimes you fold the best hand, but the problem is that if you're beat it's going to cost more money than you figure to make if you're ahead and hold. Your opponent almost can't be bluffing here and he's got position on you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by euphoricism

#10 Is c-betting into this many people OK?

---

I'll bet any piece into 2 players, this is not a continuation bet! You figure to have the best hand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by euphoricism

#13 why are we betting this flop?

---

I don't think he hit this board given his line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

A wise man once said that enlightenment can come from devotion to the master.

---

He was the master, wasn't he?

yes, you have a ton of leaks in your play.

Hand1: lead flop, as played bet more on turn!

Hand2: Bet or checkraise turn.

Hand4: against most opponents fold preflop to reraise

Hand5: fold preflop, raise flop!

Hand6: 3-bet flop or bet turn

Hand7: Not a good flop to bet out after cold calling a PF raise.

Hand8: C-bet more on flop rest of the hand is fine.

Hand9: I like just calling the flop here.

Hand10: c-bet, check call or check fold the flop depending on how much he bets. Check raising is pretty much your worst option...

Hand11: fine

Hand12: fine

Hand13: I wouldn't make it a habit of raising Q9s 5BB when you are clearly not comfortable in your post flop game.

Hand14: I bet more on the river

Hand15: bet turn

i just see alot of missed bets. when you have these strong hands (i.e. flopped straits, 2 pair that turns into a boat, etc) just bet them out and you will make your money when villains make a second best hand.

the turn is where it looks like you are loosing the most value. too many check behinds and not enough lead outs

If I were playing against you, I think I would pick up really quickly on the fact that you aren't that aggressive when you have a strong made hand. Since these are all of your big hands, I think I can say that pretty fairly.

That has a two-fold effect. First, you aren't getting the money in when you are crushing your opponent. Second, it makes your bluffs more transparent. JMO.

1. I lead this flop a lot, and I make a bigger bet on the turn. There may be some value in a river bet, but Im not all that sure, I think checking is definitely fine though, I just dont really like flop or the turn.

2. Why are we playing this hand so passively? I like the flop bet, but Im very often c/ring the turn. Just bet somewhere or raise or something, we want more money in the pot here.

3. Im not all that sure where Id go after the flop with this hand, I dont think you played it poorly though and would like to see what othe rpeople have to say.

4. I dont mind simply calling this flop bet as there really arent many cards we are worried about and we could definitely be getting more value from a worse hand here if we slowed down a bit.

5. Calling isnt _bad_ but I like 3betting more than calling here as we are OOP. I either lead or c/r this flop, after checking when faced with such a small bet we really need to make a good raise here to get more money in. The turn is ok I guess, but on that river we need to c/f, we really beat nothing.

6. I wouldnt mind a flop push simply because when a villain 3bets postflop, he typically isnt folding. On the turn I dont mind a check because it could be a semi-scary card for him, but on the river I think we need to be making a larger value bet.

7. I dont know if I bet this flop given our opponent's stack, but as played you have to call the push.

8. This is fine.

9. I dont know how much I like raising this flop, well actually, I dont really like it at all. Turn is fine, but I dont know about the river, I think the bet is fine actually but calling the c/r is probably spew

10. The c/r is sketchy, i dont like cbetting here so just c/c, c/r doesnt make much sense. I bet the river a little harder.

11. Im not really sure here because of the stacks, against a full stack Im definitely betting, against a shortstack Im not too sure, but I think this is probably best.

12. Raise the turn harder, Im not sure about the river though I think its pretty marginal either way given the bet size.

13. I dont like this raise very much in EP, as played I definitely call the limp/reraise though, we are getting goo implied odds [assuming full stacks]. The flop and turn are fine, but i raise more on the river.

14. Make real bets somewhere, $6 on the flop, check on the turn is ok, but I still probably bet as I want to play for stacks. WTF is up with the river bet? I make it $10-12ish.

15. Bet turn and river.

Didn't read everything and I don't like disecting hands so here's how I would summarize what you're doing wrong: You are not betting when you're ahead, and you're not letting go when you're behind.

When you hit a straight on the flop, bet it. You make your money off the draws chasing when you have a made hand. Not by checking it down and hoping the villian hits top pair on the river and wants to go all-in with it. When that same board becomes a 4 card flush board and villian has taken a drawing line, drop it.

oh my god

eupho,

1) Bet flop, as played bet way more on the turn (wtf ½ pot in such a small pot and with obvious draws out there?). As played check river.
2) Readdependent, but against an unkown I would probably lead turn. c/c turn and lead river (fold to a raise) is another good alternative line.
3) Turn depends on the SB, but against an complete unknown I don’t mind your line at all.
4) As played just put SB allin on the turn for his rest $21 (it’s less than a ½pot bet, he wont fold AK/AA here). Alternative line (readdependent thought) is to call flop and raise any turn bet allin (he’ll feel pretty potcommited and call with a broad range of hands you beat).
5) Fold preflop. SC’s OOP for 5bbs = yuck! Lead or c/r flop – I’ll probably lead hoping to get a call from UTG and hoping that button will raise your bet (and you can put him allin straight away on the flop). Turn and river is bad, and what is up with those pussy-less-than-½-pot-bets?
6) Raise more on the flop (to $4-5 to charge draws and for value) and stick it in after he 3-bets you. Scarecards than destroy your action can fall on the turn.
7) I often fold this preflop, sometimes I 3-bet, sometimes I call – depends on who the button is. As standard I fold though, because playing OOP with a marginal toppair hand against a preflop raiser is pretty meh.
8) Bet more on flop ($4-5). As standard I check turn as well. River is readdependant. But putting it in against a donk is pro, because he’ll call with a lot of worse hands and the backdoor flush is unlikely.
9) Please don’t raise this flop, its very dry, if you raise you’ll mostly only get called by hands that beat you. Just call and let him hang himself on the turn and river with a weaker hand.
10) wtf c/r? I would either just lead the flop or c/c. Rest is fine. I like your small river bet, because weaker hands wont call us very often if they face a larger bet.
11) nh.
12) Raise the turn more, to something like $6. River is meh, readdependent, but his line is very weird so I might just look him up getting 4:1.
13) preflop fold, unless you are cts or something like that. River is weird, against someone solid I fold, against a donk I’m leaning towards a call.
14) Bet more on the flop. Turn depends on the opponent, against a solid player I check to induce bluffs and get weaker hands to call a turn bet. Against a donk I bet the turn. Bet more on the river, at least ½ pot, but probably more since you checked the turn.
15) LEAD turn, so many draws out there. As played overbet river :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lukie

oh my god

---

stop bein an ass and help a brother out :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by euphoricism

So, really, who calls? I often feel like my hand is just so fucking transparent to anyone with half a clue that I dont understand how ANYONE makes money at NL ring without an incredibly LAG image (which I did very well with until variance kicked me in the croutons). Its so farking obvious what I have in the hands listed above when I, nor anyone else at the table, has been out of line, that I just dont ever, ever, ever see getting paid off on these kinds of hands.

---

People are erratic and quite often have hands you can't put them on.
People tend to make the same mistakes over and over again. The path to riches isn't so much playing ideal poker, but identifying and exploiting those errors.
Stop being so self-centered.
Don't worry about getting paid off. Sometimes they'll have a hand, often they won't. In the meantime steal everything that isn't nailed to the table. ;-)

Hand 1: board sucks.. hard to get paid on this set

Hand 2: I think you could find a raise somewhere here. If you are checking the turn
I think you should check raise. And lead the river strong. Or check
raise river.

Hand 3: fine

Hand 4: Turn bet, or turn check to induce bet is fine.

Hand 5: I probably check raise this flop. Lots of action killers could come
on a board where villain could have clubs or two pair.
River should be a fold, but his bet is small.

Hand 6: I don't mind the flop call of the re-raise, since we're in position.
But I think you need to bet that turn!. Flop 4-bet is also good.

Hand 7: Fine

Hand 8: Good

Hand 9: Good

Hand 10: I would probably lead this flop, and if called, check call the turn with the
heart.

Hand 11: Good

Hand 12: I would raise this flop to 4. Bet the turn strong when we complete.
As played, a call of his small bet is fine. not sure we could call
a bigger bet here.

Hand 13: What is UTG's re-raising range here? I don't see why an overpair would
check here. Weird line from villain. Maybe AKclubs? I would bet the flop.

Hand 14: Fine

Hand 15: I would bet this flop, and this turn HU.

Thanks everyone, really appreciate responses. I'll be posting lots more in the coming days.

Your "who calls?" argument is pretty weak, just think back to the LHE days in when we used to say "They call, its what they do." It's also why bluffs don't work at this level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

It's also why bluffs don't work at this level.

---

I bluff all of the time and am generally FoS. It's all about knowing the right spots to do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Its so farking obvious what I have in the hands listed above when I, nor anyone else at the table, has been out of line, that I just dont ever, ever, ever see getting paid off on these kinds of hands.

---

You give the fish at the table waaaaaaayyyyy too much credit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warpe

You give players who try to play well waaaaaaayyyyy too much credit.

---

FYP

For christ sakes, I'm wrong so often even when I put people on ranges.

I played a couple hands against Jeff last night then PMed back and forth and he had hands I had hardly even considered in both cases.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

It's also why bluffs don't work at this level.

---

I bluff all of the time and am generally FoS. It's all about knowing the right spots to do it.

---

QFT

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Your "who calls?" argument is pretty weak, just think back to the LHE days in when we used to say "They call, its what they do." It's also why bluffs don't work at this level.

---

Heh I know logically that they do call. And I see that they arent calling because I'm not giving them the chance to. But its hard to reconcile a comparison with calling 2 big blinds with calling 25.

I just watched one of green plastics 5/10 games and I saw that I played, or attempted to play, very similarly preflop. Attacking weakness by raising limpers light, and stealing everything that isnt nailed down, as fnord said. I might be trying to run before I can walk.

Okay, it seems my bluffs never seem to work out. Maybe its my image but other than firing 2nd barrels and cbetting they never work. Then again, maybe those build my image up I shouldn't be making the other kinds of bluffs.