Today's marginal hands

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01-25-2007, 03:16 PM
Silly String

Today's marginal hands

How'd I do today. These are the marginal hands that I could use advice on.

HAND #1 -- Villain is new to the table but is a Shorty
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($29.25)
UTG ($15.40)
MP ($120.30)
Button ($60.25)
Hero ($72.25)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.50) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets $1.5, Hero calls $1.50, BB folds.

Turn: ($4.50) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2.4, Hero calls $2.40.

River: ($9.30) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3, Hero calls $3.

Final Pot: $15.30

HAND #2 -- No read on villain as he was a short timer. What do you think of the turn bet? I'm guessing turn is a fold since villain could have any better 2 pair or str8 here.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($50)
Hero ($50)
SB ($58.50)
BB ($10.95)
UTG ($41.45)
MP ($8.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif.
UTG raises to $1.5, 1 fold, CO calls $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, 2 folds.

Flop: ($5.25) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, CO checks, Hero bets $4.5, UTG folds, CO calls $4.50.

Turn: ($14.25) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $8.5, CO raises to $25, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $47.75

HAND #3 -- Villain is a solid LAG @ PS50NL(Marathoner) 34/28/3. I have seen him raise anything from QQ to Q2s for 3BB.
Should I just give up and fold the flop or maybe even raise it? I don't engage him much because I usually 3bet or give up through respect.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($129.55)
SB ($26.05)
BB ($30)
UTG ($165.45)
MP ($47.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
UTG raises to $1.5, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.50, 2 folds.

Flop: ($3.75) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $2.5, Hero calls $2.50.

Turn: ($8.75) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $6.25, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $15

HAND #4 My only other hand with LAG villain early on today. I didn't know it at the time, but he hasn't really been playing back at my 3 bets. Probably only time of the day out of maybe 6 3bets.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($50)
UTG ($41.50)
MP ($81)
Button ($157)
SB ($40.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Button raises to $1.5, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6.5, Button calls $5.

Flop: ($13.25) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $9, Button calls $9.

Turn: ($31.25) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $22.25, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $53.50
01-25-2007, 03:35 PM
Genitruc

hand 1 : when the shorty who fish-limped utg fired the 3rd bullet, I think you're beat almost 100% of the time. His range is huge preflop, but with this action he's unlikely to be 3 barelling a semi-bluff in my experience

hand 2 : deciding what to do when checked to you is tough here. It's not terribly likely villain just made a straight, but then again he may have made a marginal flop call with a QJ ish hand. Once he c/r I'd prob pitch it as well. Usually I just check behind here as I think there's little value in betting.

hand 3 : an aggressive lag is firing 2 bullet in this spot a whole lot. He might have hit a queen, but if you raise here, my feeling is you'll take down the pot vs a hand-reader a lot of the time ( his thought process will probably go "LOL TRAPAMENTS i'M DONE WITH MY Q10".

Also, raising the flop isn't terrible. You'll take it down a whole lot of the time.

hand 4 : fine. Checking the flop can be fun depending on how you typically play 3 bet pots OOP but it's no biggie.
01-25-2007, 04:07 PM
Silly String

Thanks again for your responses, Genitruc. I feel I am picking up reads a little better since I am spending more time "thinking" poker. Your advice is invaluable. Some more question on the LAG. BTW FWIW everyhand he has shown down in my PT database is showdown worthy. I have yet to see a gross aggro bluff called down. I wish I could see his hands without showdown in PT. Anybody know how to view those?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

hand 3 : an aggressive lag is firing 2 bullet in this spot a whole lot. He might have hit a queen, but if you raise here, my feeling is you'll take down the pot vs a hand-reader a lot of the time ( his thought process will probably go "LOL TRAPAMENTS i'M DONE WITH MY Q10".

I would raise here when a heart hits the turn yes? Is a raise to $16 enough?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

hand 4 : fine. Checking the flop can be fun depending on how you typically play 3 bet pots OOP but it's no biggie.

I almost always fire OOP at a 3bet pot. Can you give me an example of a good board to CR or c/c & bomb the turn? Thanks
01-25-2007, 04:34 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Hand 1: i check raise the turn.
Hand 2: i play exactly the same
Hand 3: I three bet him preflop
Hand 4: I play exactly the same.
01-25-2007, 07:44 PM
zenbitz

hand 1, raise somewhere. I say flop due to reverse implied odds with many draws.

hand 3, I think you have carte blanc to screw around on this flop. You can raise, call and float, even raise turn (in order of increasing variance). 3betting pre-flop is fine, too. vs a known guy with a clue, I would be heavily in favor of mixing it up.

I agree with Gen on 2. And if he's trapping with a straight and you fill up ... $$$
01-25-2007, 07:53 PM
gabe

1 i bet flop or just check fold it. usually bet though.
2 dont bet turn
3 good, just remember to bet the turn if he checks to you
4 fine
01-25-2007, 08:44 PM
Genitruc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly String

Thanks again for your responses, Genitruc. I feel I am picking up reads a little better since I am spending more time "thinking" poker. Your advice is invaluable. Some more question on the LAG. BTW FWIW everyhand he has shown down in my PT database is showdown worthy. I have yet to see a gross aggro bluff called down. I wish I could see his hands without showdown in PT. Anybody know how to view those?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

hand 3 : an aggressive lag is firing 2 bullet in this spot a whole lot. He might have hit a queen, but if you raise here, my feeling is you'll take down the pot vs a hand-reader a lot of the time ( his thought process will probably go "LOL TRAPAMENTS i'M DONE WITH MY Q10".

I would raise here when a heart hits the turn yes? Is a raise to $16 enough?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genitruc

hand 4 : fine. Checking the flop can be fun depending on how you typically play 3 bet pots OOP but it's no biggie.

I almost always fire OOP at a 3bet pot. Can you give me an example of a good board to CR or c/c & bomb the turn? Thanks

Sorry for the shitty format, String (dunno why it always fks up when I try to quote things).

For the hand vs the lag (A10s), I'd actually call the turn if I developed the nut-flush draw since I wouldn't want to get bluffed off it and since hitting it would be very deceptive. After calling the flop he'll be hard-pressed to put you on hearts so you can usually pump the river when checked to and get paid off by a queen since your line matches with busted diamonds.

The exception would be deepstacked, where I'd raise the turn hoping to get his stack when I hit (taking obv the risk of getting pushed off it by a three-bet). If I raised I'd make it about 20$ to go personally (to get max value on river when I do hit).

Another thing to consider is that just because the villain hasn't shown down crap in a big spot doesn't mean he never 2 or 3-barrels, it's possible that he just picks his spots well.

My suggestion of checking the flop in the reriased pot vs him is a pretty personal thing. I bet much less on flops than most players and don't bet/check according to typical thinking so I can usually see a lot of free turns. In this spot in the reraised pot, the flop hits a lot of hands he's calling preflop with implied odds. I feel like betting will get him to fold only when he has pure crap, esp since you've been reraising him light (making him more likely to put you on a non big pp).

The reason I like check/folding in this spot is my feeling that you're getting called a lot on this flop, and a check can look like a trap, thus letting you see a free turn where lots of cards can make your hand interesting (bring up str8 draws, hitting a pair,etc.) at which point you may be going somewhere with the hand as opposed to bluffing with a hand that has the potential to develop showdown value.

Your line is fine though :).