Good or no?

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02-01-2007, 01:21 AM
Got Me Wrong

Good or no?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($52.25)
UTG =#A500AF(Villian)/ ($102.50)
UTG+1 ($35.75)
Hero ($94.20)
MP2 ($9.50)
MP3 ($12.20)
CO ($27.80)
Button ($26.35)
SB ($49.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
UTG =#A500AF(Villian)/ calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 6 folds, UTG =#A500AF(Villian)/ calls $1.50.

Flop: ($4.75) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Villian checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($4.75) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Villian bets $2, Hero raises to $6, Villian calls $4.

River: ($16.75) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Villian checks, Hero bets $10, Villian raises to $30, Hero calls $20.
Final Pot: $76.75

Sorry I forget any reads but I'm pretty sure he was tagg as was my image.
On the flop I felt confident enough I had the best hand and with a king high flush draw I desided to check behind and let a card come off to induce a bet.
I hit the flush on the turn and reraise as planed. I don't expect a heart on the river and want to build the pot incase he has the Ah.
No heart on the river and I feel i have the best hand especially after a check so I bet for value.
This raise confused me but I got the second nuts so I guess I got to call.

How did I play this and what mistakes did i make on each street?
How much do you bet on each street?
What hand can I put villian on?
On the river what is your play? Check behind? fold to the reraise?
What do you think about villians play?

Thanks.

Villian showed Ah9h
02-01-2007, 01:57 AM
Margin Of Error

betttttttttttttt the floppppp
02-01-2007, 03:45 AM
Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margin Of Error

betttttttttttttt the floppppp

not always
checking sometimes gives good balance. Im not sure if there is another bet on the river... possibly spewy though
02-01-2007, 04:58 AM
salsa4ever

Re: Good or no?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got Me Wrong

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($52.25)
UTG =#A500AF(Villian)/ ($102.50)
UTG+1 ($35.75)
Hero ($94.20)
MP2 ($9.50)
MP3 ($12.20)
CO ($27.80)
Button ($26.35)
SB ($49.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
UTG =#A500AF(Villian)/ calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 6 folds, UTG =#A500AF(Villian)/ calls $1.50.

Flop: ($4.75) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Villian checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($4.75) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Villian bets $2, Hero raises to $6, Villian calls $4.

River: ($16.75) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Villian checks, Hero bets $10, Villian raises to $30, Hero calls $20.
Final Pot: $76.75

Sorry I forget any reads but I'm pretty sure he was tagg as was my image.
On the flop I felt confident enough I had the best hand and with a king high flush draw I desided to check behind and let a card come off to induce a bet.
I hit the flush on the turn and reraise as planed. I don't expect a heart on the river and want to build the pot incase he has the Ah.
No heart on the river and I feel i have the best hand especially after a check so I bet for value.
This raise confused me but I got the second nuts so I guess I got to call.

How did I play this and what mistakes did i make on each street?
How much do you bet on each street?
What hand can I put villian on?
On the river what is your play? Check behind? fold to the reraise?
What do you think about villians play?

Thanks.

Villian showed Ah9h

I like the flop check
Underrepresents your hand and there are only 3 cards that really hurt you (the ace non heart)

you need to raise bigger on the turn. the pot is 12.75 and and he only has to call $4. If the Ah can extract even $10 from you on the river on a 4th heart you'd be -EV. I'd raise it to $8 to make it 3/4PS

river played good

river is played fine
02-01-2007, 08:22 AM
moradh

Nice Post, bad dilemma.

Believing he's a TAG, you first have to ask why he's limping into the pot. Especially from UTG. A TAG's going to raise any Group 1 hands from this position. My first inclination was that he had medium pairs or Axs. If he had Group 2 hand (e.g. AQo, AJo), he would have made a raise to see where he is or folded out. Unless he is losing discipline, he's not playing small suited connectors from this position. He's certainly not playing junk (e.g. Q10s.)

Slow playing a starting monster, while possible, isn't probable. I'd be thinking that we're playing some standard poker in this case.

He's called your raise. He's a TAG. What's hand is he looking to make money with in this situation? While he's heads up, he's also out of position. This is why I think he possibly has medium PP. If he has Axs, he's playing fairly loose here. But there's only a couple of bucks invested.

I think this is why you should be playing fairly standard poker practice on the flop. The flop has hit you. It's checked. Bet it out. Force him into a decision. (I don't think checking is horrible here, especially against a LAG). You're bet has to be enough to make his 7 outs to nut flush cost. If you bet $3.5/4 and he calls w Axs, he's making a mistake. If he has trips, he's either slow calling or raising here. In either case, he's forcing you into a decision on the flop or the turn.

Any time you're forced into a decision, the alarm bells should be going off.

The way the hand played out, you were always on the back foot. His small "bait" bet on the turn, his cold call to your raise, and the his strong river check raise indicate a nut flush. I doubt he'd have the same betting pattern with Trips.

I just wish I would consistently follow the same logic myself.
02-01-2007, 08:49 AM
seoul_child1

As played everything is Fine, except i would always Bet that flop ($3), build the pot and get as much money in the middle as possible. Turn raise is fine a little weak imo, i'd make it about $8.50 but if u had bet the flop ($14+) depending on what villain bets, and river action is fine... villain checked, so u Bet, villain raised - slow down ur hand is no longer the nutz so a three-bet is not an option and call the villain's raise - nothing else u can do! I suspect villain 95% of the time shows Nut Flush here? I put villain on A,10 hearts
02-01-2007, 09:00 AM
bode

i like the check behind on the flop here. as salsa said, there are only 3 cards that really hurt you, and you under represent your hand and allow 2nd best hands to take a stab at the pot.

i dont know what to make of the river reraise, but it could just as easily be a 2 pairish hand thinking he is ahead.
02-01-2007, 09:29 AM
Miffed22001

the only hand calling a river push should be Axhearts in which case i cant see a better line. Saying that, opp blatently doesnt believe our line which means we may get some sort of overcall by spewing all in on the river.
Edit: Opp played this so badly its just not funny, he left whatever was left in your stack on the table.
02-01-2007, 09:46 AM
seoul_child1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bode-ist

i dont know what to make of the river reraise, but it could just as easily be a 2 pairish hand thinking he is ahead.

What 2 pair do u put villain on after the flop check, calls $2 PFR, and then check raises a bettor's $10 river bet after calling a turn raise... This is NOT 2 pair!!

and as MIFF stated: villain horribly misplayed his Nutz and kindly left you money!!
02-01-2007, 11:08 AM
Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by seoul_child1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bode-ist

i dont know what to make of the river reraise, but it could just as easily be a 2 pairish hand thinking he is ahead.

What 2 pair do u put villain on after the flop check, calls $2 PFR, and then check raises a bettor's $10 river bet after calling a turn raise... This is NOT 2 pair!!

and as MIFF stated: villain horribly misplayed his Nutz and kindly left you money!!

i agree to a certain extent. Raising the river IS spew, but opps line is horribly bad which could force us into a large spew because the nuts just doesnt play like this.
02-01-2007, 12:24 PM
Margin Of Error

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margin Of Error

betttttttttttttt the floppppp

not always
checking sometimes gives good balance. Im not sure if there is another bet on the river... possibly spewy though

Against some crazy lag maybe there is an argument for checking the flop. vs any standard TAG checking this flop is like giving free money away.
02-01-2007, 12:33 PM
seoul_child1

[/quote] Against some crazy lag maybe there is an argument for checking the flop. vs any standard TAG checking this flop is like giving free money away.[/quote]

Against a LAGG it is more +EV to BET the flop, cause the scare card may not necessarily slow down the action, where with the TAGG it most surely will!!
02-01-2007, 01:36 PM
Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margin Of Error

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margin Of Error

betttttttttttttt the floppppp

not always
checking sometimes gives good balance. Im not sure if there is another bet on the river... possibly spewy though

Against some crazy lag maybe there is an argument for checking the flop. vs any standard TAG checking this flop is like giving free money away.

When your opponent isnt folding certain hands i dont think checking is giving away money seen as your opponent will call you down light a lot anyway.

Eg.
POKERSTARS GAME #8159919743: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/01/28 - 05:27:30 (ET)
Table 'Themisto V' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: DonCarlos77 ($89.25 in chips)
Seat 2: kiminktable ($144.90 in chips)
Seat 3: karl_mikael ($115.15 in chips)
Seat 4: realpiggyhu ($15.55 in chips)
Seat 5: Miffed22001 ($101.60 in chips)
Seat 6: darigaaz79 ($131.90 in chips)
DonCarlos77: posts small blind $0.50
kiminktable: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Miffed22001 [Ah 7h]
karl_mikael: folds
realpiggyhu: folds
Miffed22001: raises $2 to $3
darigaaz79: folds
DonCarlos77: folds
kiminktable: calls $2
*** FLOP *** [8d 2h 6h]
kiminktable: checks
Miffed22001: checks
*** TURN *** [8d 2h 6h] [3h]
kiminktable: bets $6
Miffed22001: raises $12 to $18
kiminktable: raises $12 to $30
Miffed22001: raises $68.60 to $98.60 and is all-in
kiminktable: calls $68.60
*** RIVER *** [8d 2h 6h 3h] [Kc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
kiminktable: shows [Kh Th] (a flush, King high)
Miffed22001: shows [Ah 7h] (a flush, Ace high)
Miffed22001 collected $200.70 from pot

POKERSTARS GAME #8159849475: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/01/28 - 05:14:00 (ET)
Table 'Eudora' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Jager244 ($304.95 in chips)
Seat 2: Fiude ($112.05 in chips)
Seat 3: Miffed22001 ($211.45 in chips)
Seat 4: CCCC-GGGG-22 ($61.50 in chips)
Seat 5: djj6835 ($97.55 in chips)
Seat 6: dave_jan ($107.90 in chips)
Jager244: posts small blind $0.50
Fiude: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Miffed22001 [Kd Ad]
Miffed22001: raises $2 to $3
CCCC-GGGG-22: folds
djj6835: folds
dave_jan: folds
Jager244: folds
Fiude: calls $2
*** FLOP *** [Ts 3d 6d]
Fiude: checks
Miffed22001: bets $5
Fiude: calls $5
*** TURN *** [Th 3d 6d] [4h]
Fiude: checks
Miffed22001: bets $13
Fiude: calls $13
*** RIVER *** [Th 3d 6d 4h] [Qs]
Fiude: checks
Miffed22001: $30
Fiude calls $30
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Fiude: shows [Ts Ks] (a pair of Tens)
Miffed22001 said, "flol"
Miffed22001: mucks hand

POKERSTARS GAME #8209101566: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/01/31 - 07:20:34 (ET)
Table 'Alinda' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: Geert99 ($172.25 in chips)
Seat 3: goodsaint ($127.10 in chips)
Seat 4: hripsime ($121.30 in chips)
Seat 6: Miffed22001 ($359.10 in chips)
goodsaint: posts small blind $0.50
hripsime: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Miffed22001 [8c Kc]
Miffed22001: raises $2 to $3
Geert99: folds
goodsaint: folds
hripsime: calls $2
*** FLOP *** [9d 2c 3c]
hripsime: checks
Miffed22001: checks
*** TURN *** [9d 2c 3c] [Jd]
hripsime: bets $4
Miffed22001: raises $10 to $14
hripsime: folds
Miffed22001 collected $18 from pot
Miffed22001: doesn't show hand
02-01-2007, 03:56 PM
Got Me Wrong

I don't mind checking the flop, like salsa said it underrepresents my hand and only a non-heart ace hurts me, but a bet isn't bad either.
The turn raise I agree is weak, but I figure I'm good and still want some action, and I can't really see myself paying off the nut flush if a fourth heart comes on the river.
The river I guess was ok, maybe spewy, I just don't see people checking the nuts on the river often, especially given the board and action.

How are you playing this different between a lagg and a tagg?
If I bet the flop and get called, how do you change the rest of your play?
What type of action would it take to get away from my hand?