outplay gabe!

here are some hands where i was the villian. if you were hero, what would you call these big bets/raises with? put some thought into it and you might get better at hand reading

although the particular heros are different in each hand, they are all TAGs and havent seen me do anything crazy. they each know that i will reraise light sometimes and then im not afraid to put my stack in when i think the situation warrants. at the same time, none has seen me do anything absolutely ridiculous because ive only been playing with each hero for no more than a few days. 'gabe' is about 24/19 and makes moves more than most. any other questions about image i should be able to answer.

also, gabe probably views you as a straightforward TAG who can fold hands enough to be a winner at these stakes.

try to only discuss hands that you would play the same way up until the river decision. like in the first hand, hero might have 5s4s but its an easy fold so that would be too trivial to bring up. for example, talking about AQ there is alot more interesting..

1. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

gabe ($955)
MP ($1139)
Button ($957)
SB ($951.50)
BB ($4861.85)

Preflop: Hero is Button with xx.
gabe raises to $30, 1 fold, Button calls $30, 1 fold, BB calls $20.

Flop: ($95) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, gabe bets $60, Button calls $60, BB folds.

Turn: ($215) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
gabe checks, Button checks.

River: ($215) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
gabe checks, Button bets $90, gabe raises allin to $865, Button ?

2. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP ($903)
CO ($8441.50)
Button ($5208)
SB ($1025)
BB ($15226)
gabe ($7681)

Preflop: Hero is Button with x x
gabe raises to $150, 2 folds, Button raises to $400, 2 folds, gabe calls $250.

Flop: ($875) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
gabe checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($875) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
gabe bets $620, Button calls $620.

River: ($2115) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
gabe bets $6661 (All-In), Button ?
Final Pot: $8776

3.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($1616.50)
MP ($1058)
Button ($1628)
gabe ($1955.50)
BB ($1000)

Preflop: Hero is MP with xx
1 fold, MP raises to $40, 1 fold, gabe calls $35, 1 fold.

Flop: ($90) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
gabe bets $60, MP raises to $160, gabe calls $100.

Turn: ($410) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
gabe checks, MP checks.

River: ($410) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
gabe checks, MP bets $320, gabe raises to $1755.5 (villian has abuot 550 to call), MP ?

ps. its not so much about what i have, but what you call with

You love to push TAGGS when they turn check behind huh?

Hand 1: AJ+. My hand looks so weak that you would probably value raise, not push like that. Just looks like a bluff you think you are taking down like 100% of the time.

Hand 2: lol, nothing that i could possibly have.

Hand3: QQ+ just because i can't have an AJ or KJ here but i'd call with those too.

yea the more i look at it, the 2nd hand kinda sucks, but some people play JJ/TT like this

1.
I looked at this and thought AJ+ definatly. Then the more i looked at it i thought we were getting bluffed. So im settling on the nth stuff that i need to beat trips to look you up.
With only a $200 pot im not losing a lot for folding i think

2.
AQ+ I think you bluff here a lot. hmmmm

3.
minimum flush, maybe AA/KK. Ugh this is a much tougher spot for me IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gabe

yea the more i look at it, the 2nd hand kinda sucks, but some people play JJ/TT like this

---

lol, i outplayed gabe as gabe.

What all these hands have in common is that hero shows significant weakness somewhere.

1) checks behind turn
2) checks behind flop, just calls turn with lots behind
3) checks behind turn.

So, 2nd level we should call all of them with TP or better.
However, I don't think 2nd level is enough at these stakes, against a known solid player (gp33). 3rd level tells us to fold unless we are slow/playing. Maybe even fold hands as strong as nut straight on hand 1, trips on hand 2 or 3, becuase you are shoving the river with a great hand, hoping to get a call.

Neither answer seems very satisfying - I want to go to 4th level here.
The first hand - I don't think gabe checks twice with crap, but folding a straight is too weak. I fold 9X with bad kickers.

Second hand, I think call with QJ+ I don't think you have TJ or a 9 here very often. And I really think you value bet the river with a hand that beats TPTK. I think you look to check it down with a Q, so I am not worried about my kicker.

Third hand, I better have a flush or boat, or why am I betting this river? Obviously, hero calls with a boat or nut flush. Lower flushes are judgement calls. Probably call because of the odds (not a huge over bet like the other two). About the worst I can call with is A6 (why I have that pre-flop, I don't know).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gabe

yea the more i look at it, the 2nd hand kinda sucks, but some people play JJ/TT like this

---

You mean you had QQ? Bleah. Glad I didn't call off 4Gs! And here I assumed you would not leave so much behind with a monster in a re-raised pot. SUCK LESS!

these are all fun spots where I wouldn't want to be villain

Hand 1 : I feel cally with AJ+ since I'd doubt you'd play JQ this way, there's no sense going for a turn C/R if you have a boat with the pot this small and our (villain's) line looks weak. You can be trying to get us off a split very often since you think we'll be 3-betting better aces a whole lot.

Hand 2 : you're repping a missed C/R on the flop with your set that made a boat on the river. I think your range here is mostly boats and small pocket pairs that went unimproved on the flop so it's very tough to play for us. You probably put us on a hand like 1010 that can't call. I guess that means that i call with 1010+, as silly as that may sound. This is maybe the worst spew I'd make of the 3 hands.

Hand 3 : this is the toughest one for me to decide on because your line looks so ridiculous. Did you miss your C/R with something like 56 after villain checked behind when the flush hit? I feel like you have flopped trips here but that wouldn't seem to make sense since villain is hard pressed to call without a flush. Also, we have the impression we're pot commited so it's a powerful bluff, which you know we know etc...

I think this is the hand I feel tightest about. I think I'm calling you with trips or better only.

Regardless, nice hands.

hmmmmm...........

hand 1) judging by villain's play (call on the flop, check back on the turn, weak bet on river), it looks like an ace with a questionable kicker that still plays on the river. I know we are supposed to focus on hero's holding, but we also need to take into account what hero might be putting villain on to play how he's playing.

This hand is such an overbet that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense as a bluff. gabe/hero could have missed a c/r on the turn being full or with trips on the turn and decided to do it on the river. AT is a small possibility trying to get some thin value out of AJ-AK. Any number of missed draws trying to blow an ace totall y off the pot are also possible. This looks like a value c/r and looks like a bad call for villain with aces up, which is what it looks like he has after his $90 river bet.




hand 2) Very hard to say without knowing the particular button/villain in question. He could be checking back JTs (double gutter) on the flop which he'll 3-bet pre with sometimes. Could also be JJ (maybe even KK) for pot control or unlikely, but possibly, QQ for deception. It's such a small 3-bet pre that we have to expect gabe to call with the majority (how much is unsure) if his hand preflop. Hard to say what button should call with her on the river without knowing WHICH kind of hands he'll check back. We'll leave this with a ??? and if I was capable of thinking more clearly, I'd likely be able to give a better answer. ya :D




hand 3) it's obvious (to me, which means I could very well be wrong) that gabe missed his c/r on the turn, so he's going for it on the river. Maybe he has something like 88 and is going for a sick thin BLUFF with it, seeing that villain checked back the turn. For the most part though, villain will just see the attractive odds and call with anything he was value betting with, so I really think that gabe is showing up with a big hand here usually. meh.

Hand 1: I had a long thought process wrote up but it comes down to...Villain is on a big Ace or PP 77+ and Hero can't call the river push with his busted draw.

Hand2: Hero probably has AK or a PP lower than QQ. Villain's turn bet is semi-standard for anyone who senses that Hero is reraising light preflop from the button. The fact that I call says my hand has SOME showdown value. Villain's river push looks desperate, I probably call because you think I'm weak. I think I do have SOMETHING, just not a lot. You could have a 9, but I think it's just a coincidence that you bet the turn with a 9, could have easily been something almost anything else. Hero could also have an overpair and be slowplaying the hell out of it. Either way I'm calling and if you got a 9...NH GG.

Hand 3: I think this is boat(villain) vs. flush(hero). If Hero puts villain on a FD, he's betting that turn with a boat, however if hero has a hand like AJs+, he's gonna check behind on that turn and hope to extract on the river. Throw in the flop raise (semibluff FD plus 2 overs) and it looks just like a FD. Also, I don't think Hero has enough left behind to make a bluff on the end profitable, meaning that Villain is very confident he's winning this hand flush or not.

Hand 2 looks most like a bluff. Of strong hands which conventionally re-raise - and if we're an inline tag and you've not done anything too bizarre, it's a likelihood though far from a certainty - only QQ (or 99) has better than 2 pair here. Gabe is thinking that I can fold an overpair and can definitely fold a lower pair; he is thinking that I am aware my turn call indicates strength, so his push MUST be with a monster. The second 9 not only all but rules out me having 99, but makes any overpair or AQ have to take the possibility of trips seriously.

So, Gabe *might* have fluked a monster and he might have the nuts, but there are so few likely hands I could have that Gabe knows I will probably cut my losses with almost all my holdings.

good responses people

1 - i had AT, and check river in hopes he would bluff. when he made that girl sized bet i figured he couldnt have slowplayed a monster just to bet that or hit QJ. i think he was smart enough to know that i know he doesn't have much, so i do the huge overbet allin hoping he thinks im just trying to push him off nothing because i have nothing. he runs timer all the way down and calls with AJ and loses to my AT.

2 - i had Js7s, i guess he just didnt have anything. like i said earlier, this hand doesnt show much.

3- i thought the guy would bet AA/KK/QQ for value here, so i made the bluff with 77 thinking he would insta fold those, even for the price. he had 55 though and i lose...great image play i guess. ive been working on these type of plays against TAGs-- bluffs that they think would never be bluffs. mixed results.

I like the new (slash old) avatar. Vintage gabe!

oh yea