Squeeze attempt gets into trouble

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02-13-2007, 06:06 AM
Jager

Squeeze attempt gets into trouble

MP is 20/4,CO is 20/0. I have played a lot with MP, he hates getting squeezed he has folded every time I have reraised him.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($100)
MP ($126.35)
CO ($172.65)
Hero ($142.75)
SB ($214.40)
BB ($101.55)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif.
1 fold, MP raises to $4, CO calls $4, Hero raises to $18, 2 folds, MP folds, CO calls $14.

Flop: ($41.50) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $28, CO calls $28.

Turn: ($97.50) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
CO checks, Hero ??
02-13-2007, 02:10 PM
swiggidy

c/f what could you possibly be ahead of (or get to fold). It would take a sick read that he had KK and put you on AA I think. He can't have anything more than KK+/AK here

Why does raising a 20/4 work? His raisng range is like TT+, AJs+, AKo. Is it just because this one player is bad?
02-13-2007, 02:24 PM
gabe

check, see what he does on riv
02-13-2007, 03:10 PM
silu73

I would check the turn. Call any normal bet on river and/or bet if checked to. A tight/passive players could show you TT,JJ,AJ, KQ here.
02-13-2007, 03:17 PM
swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by silu_nz

A tight/passive players could show you TT,JJ,AJ, KQ here.

This is the bottom half of a 4% PFR range. Does it really make sense that these are the hands he's calling a 3bet with?
02-13-2007, 04:25 PM
Jager

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by silu_nz

A tight/passive players could show you TT,JJ,AJ, KQ here.

This is the bottom half of a 4% PFR range. Does it really make sense that these are the hands he's calling a 3bet with?

You guys should note that the 4% PFR folded, I only mentioned as to not get flamed for reraising a 4% PFRer preflop. The CO stayed in the hand.
02-13-2007, 04:27 PM
Rondavu

This is an absolute CHECK spot. You lose less money when you're behind, and make more against hands you're ahead of, by encouraging them to stay. Why is this the case? The only possible draws are VERY unlikely.
02-13-2007, 04:33 PM
bigspenda73

My guess is JJ/TT

What is the best line against these hands in this spot. Is it checking to induce a bluff on the end or is it betting hoping he still believes you are FOS.

The turn Ace may have one you the hand but it probably killed all of your action.
02-13-2007, 04:34 PM
swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jager

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by silu_nz

A tight/passive players could show you TT,JJ,AJ, KQ here.

This is the bottom half of a 4% PFR range. Does it really make sense that these are the hands he's calling a 3bet with?

You guys should note that the 4% PFR folded, I only mentioned as to not get flamed for reraising a 4% PFRer preflop. The CO stayed in the hand.

:oops: this is why I don't post in >50NL threads. Please ignore all the posts above.

What a nit to raise 4% and fold, haha.
02-13-2007, 06:19 PM
jo

I think your point still stands swiggidy. I don't understand the logic of trying to squeeze a 4% PFR. Too often it will backfire, even if on this occasion he did happen to fold. I save my squeezes for those that are overly aggressive preflop.
02-13-2007, 06:36 PM
IowaSkinsFan

i fold this pre, anyone with me? Versus a guy with those stats...
02-13-2007, 06:40 PM
Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

i fold this pre, anyone with me? Versus a guy with those stats...

Liar
02-13-2007, 08:37 PM
nutsinho

fold pf, ez check on turn, ez fold on river if he bets but he wont cause you have him beat unless he has quads
02-13-2007, 08:43 PM
Jager

Why fold Preflop?? Isn't better to try and apply pressure on everyone? The more pressure we apply the more likely they are to make a mistake.
02-13-2007, 08:53 PM
nutsinho

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jager

Why fold Preflop?? Isn't better to try and apply pressure on everyone? The more pressure we apply the more likely they are to make a mistake.

OH YEAH THATS RIGHT! SO LETS RAISE/RERAISE EVERY SINGLE HAND WE GET!!!! ZOMG THEY WILL MAKE THE MOST MISTAKES THAT WAY SO WE WIN RIGHT???
02-13-2007, 09:03 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jager

Why fold Preflop?? Isn't better to try and apply pressure on everyone? The more pressure we apply the more likely they are to make a mistake.

I personally don't like building a pot where when we get a caller we are almost always beat.
I don't tend to get involved with 20/4. AQ is at the bottom of this guys range.
02-13-2007, 09:47 PM
iceit

Re: Squeeze attempt gets into trouble

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jager

MP is 20/4,CO is 20/0. I have played a lot with MP, he hates getting squeezed he has folded every time I have reraised him.

What were you expecting??? You said it yourself, he hates getting squeezed and has folded everytime you reraised him. He called your squeeze play. Your AQ is beat.
02-13-2007, 09:56 PM
swiggidy

Re: Squeeze attempt gets into trouble

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jager

MP is 20/4,CO is 20/0. I have played a lot with MP, he hates getting squeezed he has folded every time I have reraised him.

What were you expecting??? You said it yourself, he hates getting squeezed and has folded everytime you reraised him. He called your squeeze play. Your AQ is beat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jager

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by silu_nz

A tight/passive players could show you TT,JJ,AJ, KQ here.

This is the bottom half of a 4% PFR range. Does it really make sense that these are the hands he's calling a 3bet with?

You guys should note that the 4% PFR folded, I only mentioned as to not get flamed for reraising a 4% PFRer preflop. The CO stayed in the hand.

If you're trying to make me feel better it worked.
02-13-2007, 11:06 PM
benny999

i agree with the flames on reraising the 4% pfr guy...especially if he's getting ready to take a stand or something. if you need to, I'd rather do it with a PP.
I dunno, I might call pf, but folding is probably better.
02-13-2007, 11:46 PM
Jager

Alright so if we don't reraise with AQ, then what are we reraising with? QQ+ AK? If this is our only range then he wins, he gets to play his game, in his comfort zone, on his terms. Do we never reraise in this spot cause he only raises 4%? Do we expose our AA in this spot, to a multiway pot because he only raises 4% and the caller never raises? If we call with any hand he raises do we fold to his flop bet everytime we don't spike a monster? If I am wrong then someone tell me, but if I am not looking to exploit every player at my table then what am I doing there?
02-14-2007, 12:07 AM
nutsinho

If someone raises 4% over a large sample, you generally shouldnt be reraising them too often. Given the read that this one likes to fold the low end of this range to reraises, you should be reraising suited connectors sometimes but not AQo. AQo SUCKS vs his range.
02-14-2007, 12:23 AM
Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jager

Alright so if we don't reraise with AQ, then what are we reraising with? QQ+ AK? If this is our only range then he wins, he gets to play his game, in his comfort zone, on his terms. Do we never reraise in this spot cause he only raises 4%?

You got it. Don't reraise him ever. He doesn't win. He loses, because u read his hands like a book and play implied odds. You might need to reraise him with QQ+ sometimes just to isolate him, but in generally i wouldn't rr him.
02-14-2007, 12:58 AM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jager

If this is our only range then he wins

Yep he wins 4% of the time, we win a lot more. You can cold call pp's here and Sc's maybe for a lot of value.
02-14-2007, 12:58 AM
benny999

ya, exploit that he has too predictable of a range and probably is weak tight by playing hands with implied odds well post flop.
i wouldn't reraise Axo (except maybe AK) because of bad implied odds vs his call range.
02-14-2007, 01:04 AM
gabe

at 100nl i doubt you have enough stats on him to be accurate so i always reraise him here. if you knew he was that tight i would never fold anyway....you have button!!
02-14-2007, 01:06 AM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

at 100nl i doubt you have enough stats on him to be accurate so i always reraise him here. if you knew he was that tight i would never fold anyway....you have button!!

gabe lol he would've probably told us if it was a small sample size.
And also you probably spew a bit on looseness preflop anyway.
02-14-2007, 01:10 AM
swiggidy

Re: Squeeze attempt gets into trouble

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jager

I have played a lot with MP, he hates getting squeezed he has folded every time I have reraised him.

Does this mean nothing to anyone? When someone makes a good move everyone is like "oh snap, reads >> hands". But then here Jager's (seemingly solid) read is kicked away with "don't play against him".

Since his hand range is so narrow isn't calling a raise with almost any 2 +eV (assuming he's not also uber-tight post-flop)?
02-14-2007, 01:15 AM
IowaSkinsFan

oh thanks swig didn't see that. Yeah assuming you haven't been out of line squeze here with a lot of hands. but without that read i stick to my analysis.
02-14-2007, 01:27 AM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

And also you probably spew a bit on looseness preflop anyway.

lol???? thanks, next time i play ill remember your advice
02-14-2007, 02:57 AM
elipsesjeff

I think gabe is partly right but partly not. I'm never folding here on teh button with AQ, but I hate to say its always a reraise.

Personally, I think checking on the turn is the best play here in most circumstances on such a draw-less board. Just hope he doesn't push the river.
02-14-2007, 03:08 AM
Irisheyes

easy pf fold
02-14-2007, 09:27 AM
Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

easy pf fold

On the button?!!?...phfft
02-14-2007, 11:34 AM
gabe

http://www.notasinc.com/images/Tapestry/NIT-M03big.jpg
02-14-2007, 11:47 AM
Warpe

building sweaters?
02-14-2007, 11:48 AM
jo

That seems pretty obscure gabe.

I'll help translate:

http://thedirtroad.net/nit/nitlogo.jpg
02-14-2007, 12:12 PM
Genitruc

Haven't read the thread but imo at this point I'd check the turn and push any non-K river.
02-14-2007, 12:32 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

And also you probably spew a bit on looseness preflop anyway.

lol???? thanks, next time i play ill remember your advice

It's not my advice.
02-14-2007, 01:38 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by jo

That seems pretty obscure gabe.

I'll help translate:

http://thedirtroad.net/nit/nitlogo.jpg

ship it
02-14-2007, 02:29 PM
nutsinho

just because someone doesnt call with AQo here doesnt mean he is a nit. If I had those stats available when I played I would be folding AQ0 here but calling with 74s. I'd need more reads than the ones given to profitably play AQo in this spot.
02-14-2007, 03:58 PM
Miffed22001

the more i look at this the more i think fold/raise. I think i fold here 60% the time, raise the rest, never call.
02-15-2007, 12:02 AM
Lukie

it's not like we're playing from the SB, we have position.. nothing wrong with a call. If the original raiser was more of your typical 20/15 type player, a squeeze is pretty much standard with such a big hand. As played I think I'd normally squeeze or call the vast majority of the time, maybe once in a blue moon I'd muck but only because of the guy's stats.

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