66 in the sb, 777 flop ($100NL on Stars)

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02-20-2007, 04:14 PM
donkbee

66 in the sb, 777 flop ($100NL on Stars)

He had been folding to my raises before, but recently he had started calling when I started raising too much :-P He's 12/4/1 after 50 hands.

Basically on the river I was trying to rep a really big pair (or quads?). Does the $15 do this or is it too small? I couldn't decide how much to bet. Or maybe the entire hand was played terribly, I don't know. Comments appreciated, thanks.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($96.45)
Button ($121.05)
Hero ($130.80)
BB ($124.70)
UTG ($59.50)
MP ($76.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
4 folds, Hero raises to $4, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($8) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $6, BB calls $6.

Turn: ($20) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $14, Hero calls $14.

River: ($48) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $15
02-20-2007, 04:17 PM
Fnord

I play pre-flop and flop a little different. But over-all I think it's fine.

Food for thought:

Why are you raising pre-flop? What are you trying to accomplish? How are you getting value from this guy?
02-20-2007, 04:25 PM
donkbee

HI FNORD

That's an interesting question that I'm glad you asked. I was originally raising most of my hands from the SB because he was folding before. When he started calling, should I have stopped raising? I know that's not what you're trying to say.

I think I'm too much in the frame of mind that I should almost always be raising when I intend to play a hand. If the BB is a pretty tight player and he's mostly going to fold his bad hands, I guess there is no point in raising 66 because he only calls with hands that beat me (or have a very good chance to beat me) and folds all other hands.

Or am I totally missing all points?

Aside from that, how would you have played the flop?
02-20-2007, 04:32 PM
Fnord

I would raise a fair chunk of hands to $3 pre-flop and tighten up when he stops folding so much. Usually that's enough to get the multi-tabler ABC types to fold trash and that's what we really want OOP. Risking $2.5 to win $1.5 with the odd chance of flopping a hand or c-betting an occasional flop sweetening the deal. You shouldn't be looking to build pots or play multiple streets here OOP vs a tight player. Nor should you skin him so hard that he makes the correct adjustments (I do this far too often.)

On the flop I might bet something like $4, but it's a blank flop, he knows it and you have some showdown value. Hence, I usually check it and play it from there. Betting out here in general sets up difficult spots and I would avoid it unless there is a need to balance or I think he folds so much that we should just auto-bet.

Anyway, that's my thinking and from there you can figure why I don't like the bigger PFR nor flop bet as it set you up to play a mediumish pot OOP vs a player who figures to be tight but we may have inspired to play better.
02-20-2007, 04:41 PM
donkbee

That's perfect, thank you.
02-20-2007, 05:49 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Re: 66 in the sb, 777 flop ($100NL on Stars)

Quote:

Originally Posted by courtiebee

He had been folding to my raises before, but recently he had started calling when I started raising too much :-P He's 12/4/1 after 50 hands.

Basically on the river I was trying to rep a really big pair (or quads?). Does the $15 do this or is it too small? I couldn't decide how much to bet. Or maybe the entire hand was played terribly, I don't know. Comments appreciated, thanks.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($96.45)
Button ($121.05)
Hero ($130.80)
BB ($124.70)
UTG ($59.50)
MP ($76.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
4 folds, Hero raises to $4, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($8) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $6, BB calls $6.

Turn: ($20) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $14, Hero calls $14.

River: ($48) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $15

i personally just fold the turn. the river is the worst thing you could do.
02-20-2007, 05:58 PM
Fnord

I'd glad you quoted the entire HH before making that one sentence post of endless wisdom.

edit: Put your opponent on something like AT and figure given the stack size, pre-flop behavior, etc. that he thinks a little and tries to play well. Bet/Fold followed by Check/Folding a blank turn is a pretty terrible line against a lot of his range.
02-20-2007, 06:10 PM
jackvance

Re: 66 in the sb, 777 flop ($100NL on Stars)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

the river is the worst thing you could do.

Agreed. It's too weak to fold out better hands.
02-20-2007, 06:13 PM
Fnord

Re: 66 in the sb, 777 flop ($100NL on Stars)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

the river is the worst thing you could do.

Agreed. It's too weak to fold out better hands.

I see no compelling reason to either think our hand isn't good here a lot, nor to want to try to fold out better hands.
02-20-2007, 06:19 PM
jackvance

Re: 66 in the sb, 777 flop ($100NL on Stars)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I see no compelling reason to either think our hand isn't good here a lot, nor to want to try to fold out better hands.

Basically, it seems like the kind of bet that only gets called when you're beat.
02-20-2007, 06:22 PM
Fnord

Re: 66 in the sb, 777 flop ($100NL on Stars)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

Basically, it seems like the kind of bet that only gets called when you're beat.

Ax/22/33/44 might look us up for a reasonable price. The donk bet might freeze up a lot of other hands.
02-20-2007, 07:23 PM
bdawg56kg

I bet $12 on the turn and don't put another dollar in if called. It's very unlikely you will get bluffed or floated twice here, but on the other hand its def possible to get called by a worse hand (zeebo thm) since it's a blind battle and you say he has started to adjust to you raising his bb. Also, he has 7 outs a lot of the time, so you want to protect your hand by betting.

As played, I'd c/f river. You are almost never going to bluff out a better hand by betting $15.
02-22-2007, 02:51 AM
Numbr2intheWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I'd glad you quoted the entire HH before making that one sentence post of endless wisdom.

edit: Put your opponent on something like AT and figure given the stack size, pre-flop behavior, etc. that he thinks a little and tries to play well. Bet/Fold followed by Check/Folding a blank turn is a pretty terrible line against a lot of his range.

he's a 12/4/1 though... you're may have to call two bets to a guy who's bluffing like 15% of the time. And AT is probably his worst possible holding, you're going to see a lot of pairs here, including AA.