Dumb JJ hand deep

Bodizzle, no hh.

I'm playing pretty lagg, running terrible cards wise but pwning people anyway.

Villain is a very interesting fish. He basically always slowplays everything, and whenever he's showing an act of undue aggression, its pretty much always a bluff. I called him down three streets a while ago with bottom pair of deuces and it was good. He's very possibly frustrated with me because ive been opening tons of pots and pretty much winning every hand vs him where i had the best hand (regardless of how terrible the board was for me :D ).

I've been playing at this table forever and he hasn't limpreraised once.

4 handed .5/1

CO: random
Button: Fish Villain 391
SB: random
BB: Me 216

Preflop: Dealt Js Jh

CO folds, Villain limps for 1, SB calls for .50, i rz to 4, Villain thinks for like 3 seconds and reraises to 8. SB folds, I lick my 200bb chops and call.

Flop: As 7s Qs pukament.

I check, guy bets 10 into 19 and i call.

Turn: the bittersweet Jc

I donkbet 28 into 39. Guy thinks for a couple of seconds and raises me to 70. I make the call.

River: a harmless 4h

I c/c 50 dollars.

Could just as easily be AK/AQ as AA.

why call the flop if you think he has aces?

Tough hand.

Fold the flop first of all. The rest of the hand is pretty tough but nothing you can do. His tiny raises and small river bet make this hard to fold. If he's bluffing so much, might as well make the crying call.

yeh i like ur call on the end but i wudve been done with jacks on flop with two overcards, but im a pussy and am allergic to overcards...lol

So no one else sees he has a flush draw?

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

So no one else sees he has a flush draw?

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Does a flushdraw really ever put $50 on the river after putting $70 in on the turn? Some nth level here?

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Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp

Tough hand.

Fold the flop first of all.

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but i have like 8-9 aggregate outs vs his range. Don't i need to c/c the flop just for express pot odds?

folding the flop seems dumb getting 3:1 vs a fish

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Originally Posted by AHiltz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

So no one else sees he has a flush draw?

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Does a flushdraw really ever put $50 on the river after putting $70 in on the turn? Some nth level here?

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HERO has the flush draw, not villain

i like the turn donk bet, but since you are do deep i would reraise there every time. then i would c/r allin on riv.

why do you call the turn J bittersweet? if for any reason it might be bad then fold the flop.

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Originally Posted by gabe

i like the turn donk bet, but since you are do deep i would reraise there every time. then i would c/r allin on riv.

why do you call the turn J bittersweet? if for any reason it might be bad then fold the flop.

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Instead of answering your questions straight up, I'm gonna give u my thought process during the hand:

He limpreraises preflop. He's a frustrated fish who likes to slowplay and bluff. I immediately put him on QQ+ or complete trash like A7o or JTs. In my mind, he's gonna be coming in for a raise with goodbutnotgreat hands like AJ, AQ and perhaps even AK. But since im pretty in the dark (considering he's a fish and plays irrationally), i guess i have to throw AK in his range too.

Flop I considered to be a trivial c/c considering its just half the pot. Im sure there are reverse implied odds and you could argue for a fold. But this guy is so terrible, that i doubt reverse implied odds even exist vs him.

Turn I donkbet for protection. He makes a weak raise. I elect to just call because I put him on either QQ/AA or on a total bluff like KK or A2o or air with one spade. Obviously im not getting away from a set in a 3bet pot ever, but why make him fold bluffs?

River, same rationale. I check to induce bluffs, and don't raise when he bets because he has trash or sets and i'd like to save 70 dollars the times he has the latter.

you have good thinking, its just that you're prlly thinking too much against this type of player.

i think you are underestimating the times he is paying off with one of his bad hands (like Ax or low two pair........maybe even KK). its a crime not to get it in.

he had ace rag

I'd just shove the turn. If you're behind you have outs, and given your read you are ahead a lot. His line doesn't seem like a bluff to me, but with that said he can have a lot of worse hands.

I would shove turn or river- YOU HAVE A SET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would actually lean towards re raising turn as fish love flush draws- and they think losing isnt even a possibility if they have a pair AND a flushdraw. You have a monster vs a bad player- just try to figure out if hes more likely to get it in on turn or river, and I think its usually the turn. Also, considering you have the Js, raising less than all in is ok on turn as fish love calling small bets drawing dead, again this is all up to your judgement.

Its a huge mistake not to make every effort to get all the money in the middle here.

I would have shoved the turn. Fish often think that a pair of Aces is good and min-raise to find out where they are. They might see your shove as a sign of frustration. I defintely play for stacks here especially given your table image.

I guess I'm the nit here, but I hate playing for 400bb pots without a flush on a board that has 3 spades. If you get it all in here, you're behind more often than not even against a fish.

I missed that OP had a flush draw on the flop. Since he gave you perfect odds, I don't see anything wrong with the call as long as you're careful. You may not be giving all sorts of reverse implied odds, but you're working in reverse implied odds territory given his limp reraise and your lack of a draw to the nuts. The cards that make your hand could also give you an expensive second best.

In conclusion, I think OP played it good.