100NL, two hands vs donk

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03-12-2007, 09:49 PM
griffey24

100NL, two hands vs donk

-Haven't played that many hands with this villain, but he is running at 50/30 and from what I've seen is a call centre, pretty passive

Hand 1:
-I figured I was way ahead of his range, and that I couldn't just flat call to set hunt so I raised him hard
-he has been raising light and calling all re-raises
-what to do on this flop? only half-pot bet left. Committed at this point?
Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $91.50
UTG+1: $108.75
CO: $238.50
Button: $56.75
Hero: $112.50
BB: $228.50

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with :7s: :7c:
3 folds, Button raises to $7, Hero raises to $27, BB folds, Button calls.

Flop: :ac: :4h: :2c: ($55, 2 players)
Hero ??

Hand 2:
-same villain as hand 1

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $138
Hero: $105.75
CO: $207.50
Button: $100
SB: $32.21
BB: $285.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with :td: :th:
UTG raises to $4, Hero raises to $12, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: :9c: :7d: :8c: ($36.5, 3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $34, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: :ts: ($104.5, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero ??
03-12-2007, 10:01 PM
SmackinYaUp

Man first hand is tough. Did he raise 7bb every time? I bet 40 and hope he folds. ...if he pushes, well it depends on how out of control he is because obviously you're going to be behind a lot, but you're almost committed. If he's not super retarded after the flop and you think he can tell you're committing yourself, I can find a fold if he pushes over your cbet even though its such a shit spot. First thing though is to close your eyes and bet that shit hard.

Second hand is a big ass bet. Only hand you're worried about is JJ but thats ok.
03-12-2007, 10:15 PM
Toadstool

The thing is with betting 40 and hoping he folds - if he does fold then you probably had him beat anyway so that's a bad thing. In this scenario lets say he either has the ace or doesnt and presume all the money is going on the flop.

You bet and he has an ace he is going AI - you lose your bet say $40
you bet and he hasnt got an ace hes folding.
you lose $40 in one of these and get him to fold the worst hand in the other one. neither result is good.

What do you think about checking and calling/raising?
considering that most players will auto-bet when checked to in a reraised pot - especially somebody playing 50/30.
Also - your hand has showdown value.

I think that checking is the best option.
03-12-2007, 10:21 PM
griffey24

Hand 1- I'm not sure if you guys noticed, but button is short. So he can't push over a bet if I make one, he only has $29 behind. So I guess I'm committed here?
03-12-2007, 10:25 PM
SmackinYaUp

That makes things a lot easier. Just go ahead and put him in on the flop. His style and short stack makes playing him a crapshoot thats slightly in your favor.

Check call is ok too but he's so short and I don't want him checking behind at all.
03-13-2007, 01:30 AM
benny999

I think check-call is a better play. I think more often than the times he checks behind and improves are the times that he called with something marginal and tries to bluff at the ace.

also, i dont like pre flop much. i don't see the benefit to leaving a 1/2 pot bet for the flop. if he's calling that much with a worse hand, i'd just put him all in pre flop.
would he really fold pre flop for 50, but not for 25?
03-13-2007, 10:44 AM
Thee One

I like c/c on the flop here as well. He's pushing with any two here as he's so short. If he fails to push then you should re-evaluate the turn as he may have hit that Ace and is trying to slowplay you. Donks somehow think that's cool, behave like Taz with garbage and like a mouse with the nuts.

I don't think I put any more into the pot post unless I'm pushing or calling a flop push or unless I improve. He's not slowplaying unless he has you beat.
03-13-2007, 12:41 PM
zenbitz

hand 1, his range is crushing you but he only has 2/3 pot left. Not sure I like the 3-bet pf with those stacks. He's not raising you light here. Back to the flop... I don't know what's more likely, that he folds a better hand (88-TT?) or bluffs with something you beat. Both seem pretty unlikley, but there's some chance he folds without an A, so bet.

hand 2: only 60 behind, you have 10 outs vs. unlikley straight. The question is - does he have an overpair or a flush draw? He might actually fold an overpair on this board, while if you check behind you are likely to get it in on the river. But if he has like AcKc, then not betting would be bad. Split the difference and bet 30? A silly bet, but might encourage him to make a mistake.
03-13-2007, 01:21 PM
griffey24

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbitz

hand 1, his range is crushing you but he only has 2/3 pot left. Not sure I like the 3-bet pf with those stacks. He's not raising you light here. Back to the flop... I don't know what's more likely, that he folds a better hand (88-TT?) or bluffs with something you beat. Both seem pretty unlikley, but there's some chance he folds without an A, so bet.

hand 2: only 60 behind, you have 10 outs vs. unlikley straight. The question is - does he have an overpair or a flush draw? He might actually fold an overpair on this board, while if you check behind you are likely to get it in on the river. But if he has like AcKc, then not betting would be bad. Split the difference and bet 30? A silly bet, but might encourage him to make a mistake.

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies.

I think you're giving far too much credit for this villain's range of hands here. He's playing at 50/30 (which means he's probably raising about half of all hands from the button) AND he has called everytime someone has re-popped him (despite the fact that he is raising so light).

I think i agree with benny, that I probably should have just pushed preflop. I rarely find myself pushing preflop, and I'm not sure if thats a good thing or a leak? Any kind of push, thats not a 4-bet, just seems like an over-bet to me.

I think pushing the flop in hand 1 has its merits against a player that can fold in this spot (so invested), but since villain is a donk, i'd imagine a check would probably be best. I'm saying this in retrospect.. since I pushed lol..

Villain showed A10off in hand 1 and took it down! (A10off for $27 preflop!? hmmm...this is what I'm talking about =) )

Hand 2: I pushed the turn. donk villain called my big turn push for like $50-60ish with one card to come, with k2 of clubs (he raised UTG lol).. and spiked the club for the take down. gotta love donks!
03-13-2007, 03:23 PM
zenbitz

I admit, I didn't consider the stats. I think 77 is on the low end to push with, since you are usually fliping (albeit 55-45 with an overlay), even if clearly +EV. Actually, I think how you played is optimal. (re-raise, then push any flop and hope he missed) Since he usually misses, I think this is more +EV then playing against 2 overs a/i pf. I didn't do the math though.
03-13-2007, 03:38 PM
bode

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

Villain showed A10off in hand 1 and took it down! (A10off for $27 preflop!? hmmm...this is what I'm talking about =) )

Um, how did you win in hand 1 if he had ATo? You must have spiked a 7 on the turn/river i guess.
03-14-2007, 01:38 AM
griffey24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bode-ist

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

Villain showed A10off in hand 1 and took it down! (A10off for $27 preflop!? hmmm...this is what I'm talking about =) )

Um, how did you win in hand 1 if he had ATo? You must have spiked a 7 on the turn/river i guess.

"villain showed A10off in hand 1 and took it down"... not "and I took it down" =) villain's hand stood.
03-15-2007, 11:45 AM
Genitruc

Hand 1 it doesn't really matter I think both betting and checking are similar EV. If he's a station you probably won't get him to fold 88-KK.

Hand 2 I shove all day the only hand that makes sense in a reraised pot is JJ. +When you're wrong and commit yourself you still have equity.
03-15-2007, 06:39 PM
Galapogos

Re: 100NL, two hands vs donk

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

-Haven't played that many hands with this villain, but he is running at 50/30 and from what I've seen is a call centre, pretty passive

Hand 1:
-I figured I was way ahead of his range, and that I couldn't just flat call to set hunt so I raised him hard
-he has been raising light and calling all re-raises

I don't like this logic. If he's calling down reraises light you're better off waiting for a hand that fairs a little better on the flop than a pair of 7s if he's most likely calling you anyway. If he's a call station and you think you're ahead of his range, why not see a cheap flop and if it's safe start the betting?